| 11:09am, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
MinMin
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827199
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im not from bradford or luton and im gng to reply so :P
2,3,4,5.. only Allah knows.. and Allah knows best. :)
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| 11:16am, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827201
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^^^^^^^^^
thats just the kind of crap i didnt want in here. |
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| 11:20am, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
MinMin
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827205
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lol
excellent
good luck on getting your answers then! |
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| 11:22am, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827208
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yeah as long as i dont get anymore of that "islam forever!!! complete way of life so dont question it you jahil bastard disbeliever!" rubbish... |
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| 11:23am, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Red_Chillies
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827209
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1, who knows?
2. i think you know what is the islamic perspective on non-muslims.
3.heaven is supposed to be the most amazing sanctuary ever, i very much doubt u will find anyone annoying.
4.yes theres hope, the only sin which cannot be forgiven is shirk.
5.yes i have a bit of a problem with this too...
and yes, i know my post is incredibly basic. and i dont care if u think its shit.
adieu |
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| 11:24am, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827210
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much appreciated. |
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| 11:27am, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
MinMin
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827212
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umm im not calling you a disbeliever
(its not my place to say that to you or anyone..)
im merely saying that only Allah knows, fair enough we can speculate, but bottom line only Allah decides these matters
and no im not a quran bashing loon!
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| 11:32am, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827213
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speculate? is that why hardcore muslims hate ppl questioning stuff?
they love censorship. they wud rather beat ur ass to death than be challenged.
admit it, deep down most muslims have these questions lurking in their minds but dont have the balls to mention it cos they'll get criticised. |
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| 11:35am, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
spoon
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827214
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i think this is why i don't believe in heaven and hell anymore.
it just couldn't happen. its a fantasy made up by people cos we're too arrogant to think that we just die and thats the end. |
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| 11:37am, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827216
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i've only ever known a hell because heaven sounds like a place only angels would be worthy of reaching. |
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| 12:07pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
shingo
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827221
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i don't know where god came from. i think it is something beyond our comprehension. i can understand why atheists don't believe, there is no proof. that's why it's called faith though and i got faith in god
there's a verse in the quran that says something like if you reject satan and believe in god then that is an unbreakable bond. i like to think that people who live good lives get to heaven. to be honest though heaven and hell is stuff i haven't read too much about
like i siad i have little knowledge about heaven, that's a question i've asked a few people myself though. what i been told is that everyone gets their own personal heaven where everything is how they want it. myself i don't like the sound of that, to me it sounds like you gonna end up in heaven interacting wth a lot of souls who ain't really the person you think they are because in actuality that person don't like you
i think it is unfair that some people get a head start in learning about islam by virtue of who they were born to. thing is though life is seldom fair. some people are born with defective hearts, that ain't fair either. on the other hand for people who learn about slam later in life i some ways it's an advantage because they can learn purely about islam whereas people who are born muslim often get taught a lot of cultural stuff dressed up as islam. for example a lot of people get the "the path to heaven is through the feet of your parents" line drummed into them non stop as a weapon for their parents to force obedience. the quran says though to follow god's word and not that of your parents |
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| 12:25pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
BeardedGenius
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827224
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Firstly, my knowledge of Islam is embarrassingly minute. I try to learn about my faith, but in actual fact, know far far less than I should.
I believe God always was, always has been and always will be. To apply any sort of thought to such a question is fruitless, because we can't deal in beginnings, middles and ends as we do for our own existence, because who are we to say there is a such thing as a beginning, middle and end to anything in the context of the question? Is time a factor when we're dealing with the existence of existence? Before anything was there nothingness? And if so, how long did nothingness exist, and when did it start? It's simply beyond comprehension. At the end of the day if you don't believe in God, it negates the question, but if you do believe in God, you believe what God has let there be known - which is that God is, was and will be eternal.
The Mother Theresa question is interesting. Good good people - do we know what they did wrong in life? Mother Theresa committed sins in her life - it's just a case of what they were and how many. We might think she deserves Heaven - but what do we know about her? In terms of asking whether non-Muslims will go to heaven, I suppose it's the question as the last question really.
Every individual has had different lives, and different experiences and circumstances. From the point of view of Islam, everyone has come to see it through different eyes. For instance, is a very very stupid person who was brain-washed to hate Islam by all his family and peers since he was born destined for hell simply because of his circumstances? Is an Amazonion tribe member who's never encountered or heard or even conceived of the concept of a monolithic God destined for hell? Each person has had difference experiences, difficulties, barriers to belief, levels of intelligence, etc - so all these issues must be taken into account.
If you believe in a merciful God, you will know that's not like applying for a job - it's not a case of having not gone to Oxbridge or having enough UCAS which means sorry no job. It's not an exact science. It's up to He of greatest wisdom and insight to make these decisions based on everything - if you believe in God.
The heaven question is again thinking about existencial questions in terms of our own limited understanding. It assumes heaven is a geographical place we all go. I like to think everyone's heaven is perfectly tailored to their own ideas, desires and loves. Another question could be, what if I dearly love someone, but I go to heaven and they go to heaven - how could I enjoy heaven without them? I like to think everyone will have their own personal heaven and anything you want to happen can happen there. Whoever you want can be there. But will that person actually be the 'soul' of the person or just a fancy hologram that you can't tell the difference of if the person was actually meant to go to hell?! We can never ever know!
It's good to ask questions and wonder about these things - it's what the human mind was invented for. But ask these questions knowing you'll never achieve the objective of finding an answer! |
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| 12:26pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
BeardedGenius
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827225
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Looks like Shingo and I think along the same lines! |
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| 12:28pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
BeardedGenius
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827226
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*I go to heaven and they go to HELL |
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| 02:53pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
raz_q
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827235
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strangely enough im thinking like spoon these days...
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| 03:49pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
gezzer
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827243
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1.He was infinite and always there. He has not beginning and no end. This is what all faiths say I guess. I put it down to the fact that no one can create the creator. Philosophical questions like this can go around and round it is simply a case of if you believe in god or you do not.
2. According to Islamic Shariah it is forbidden to say who has gone to hell and who has not. So the answer is I don't know. As for Bono and Geldolf or any non muslim who does good acts they will be rewarded for their good acts. Even the Prophets sworn enemy Abu Lahab was rewarded for the act of setting free his maid on hearing about his newphews birth.
3. In heaven you won't feel hate for any relatives as all negative emotions are taking away from mankind to insure a happy and peaceful utopia.
4. There is hope for all as long as two criteria are met. One he or she asks for sincere forgivness for the crime they have committed. Secondly they have belief in the lord.
5.As for your last question being born into a Muslim family does not mean you will stay Muslim for example Salman Rushdie. But you get those who were not born into Muslim families that become Muslim. This again points to free choice that the lord has given to us all. |
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| 04:00pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Goatboy
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827244
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Agree with everything Gezzer says except the last one.
Our philosophy of life can change with the times. As long as your intentions are good you will be judged fairly.
I believe it is important not to concentrate on who you will be with in the afterlife. It is more important to look after the world.
The dhunya should be our primary focus or we will be cast out of phone for not respecting our fellow man enough to engage in their jihad (struggle). |
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| 04:06pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
SlyChick
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827246
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Trucker my man you've got some balls posting up this thread! No seriously, there's so many questions I'd like to ask about Islam but I don't think I could handle the critiscm or being called a 'nonbeliever'  |
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| 04:18pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Goatboy
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827250
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lol @ cast out of phone
I meant cast out of heaven but my phone went off |
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| 04:25pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827254
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shingo, noor and gezzer generally confirmed what i assumed were the answers for them questions.
noor & gezzer, about Q1 - i thought it was like that too but i wanted to hear it from someone else. gods origns is what atheists usually challenge and to give them THAT answer seems like a cop out and they sometimes accuse us of being hypocrites because we wudnt accept these answers from those of other religions e.g sikhs or hindus, so why shud they believe us? argh.
SlyChick, like i was saying - hardcore hotheaded muslims wud freak out if you even hinted at these questions. i've fended off many lynch mobs. |
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| 04:29pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
SlyChick
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827258
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Thanks Trucker. |
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| 04:34pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827262
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your welcome (although i havent done anything). |
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| 04:38pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
SlyChick
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827264
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You've given me the courage to ask questions, now I just have to remember what I wanted to question. But Trucker honestly is it really bad to question one's religion? |
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| 04:38pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827266
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probably. i dont know anything. |
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| 04:40pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
paki_from_mars
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827268
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im from bradford hence the lack of reply to this bullshit thread and many of truckers other shit threads. |
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| 04:41pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
SlyChick
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827269
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pfm chill, am sure he didn't mean it. |
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| 04:42pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827270
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PFM - perfect example of the typical cliched simplified posts in the style of a paki from luton or bradford. |
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| 04:47pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Goatboy
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827271
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no wanking on the site please boys |
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| 04:48pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
zedstar
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827273
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interesting set of questions....
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| 04:50pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827274
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goatboy - you have to wonder how dumb some ppl can get for them to assume a thread on this board didnt get many posts because it was shit...even tho it was only for 6 guys to reply to (half of them already having replied) :| |
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| 04:53pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Goatboy
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827276
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:D |
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| 05:06pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
zedstar
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827278
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who said ur thread was shit |
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| 06:06pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
egg
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827281
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LMFAO...funny thread Tracker! I can see why you kept people from Luton and Bradford out LMFAO!!!!!!LMFAO!!!!!!LMFAO!!!!!!LMFAO!!!!!!LMFAO!!!!!!LMFAO!!!!!!LMFAO!!!!!!LMFAO!!!!!!LMFAO!!!!!!LMFAO!!!!!! |
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| 06:41pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
lutonzpaki
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827283
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Why shouldn't muslims from bradford or luton reply? You really are pathetic trucker! |
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| 07:14pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
outlaw_nas
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827284
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i dont think he likes muslims from bradford and luton  |
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| 07:25pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827285
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Looks like i'm late in response.
But I agree generally with the statements made.
Unless anything is to be added I wont repeat stuff. |
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| 07:28pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
nadiaa
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827286
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Allah knows best  |
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| 08:42pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827293
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i apologised beforehand because i knew the bradfordians and lutonians wud be offended. i think i already explained why i prefered if you guys didnt post but since you arent too bright, let me rephrase -
i dont hate muslims frm luton or bradford. i just think those of you that trespassed into this thread wud not have been able to give the answers i was looking for.
every time i see you guys debate or discuss in religon threads - you come out with stuff that doesnt help much.
nothing personal but its a fucking truism and if you wanna prove me wrong, why dont u attempt to answer them questions at the top without your usual rehearsed generic answers and overblown simplified crap i hear all the time frm people who just follow blindly??
am i wrong, lutonz & nas? go ahead and answer the questions. i dare ya.
since i already apologised at the top, i think it wud be stupid to apologise now because i still believe you guys wudnt understand what this is all about and you wouldnt want me to apologise neither since you know i could give a shit less what you think (unless its about the thread subject) ...this thread was directed towards the 6 guys whose names are in the title. it IS an FAO - if ur name aint on the list, why are you complaining? |
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| 08:46pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
lutonzpaki
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827294
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Firstly, i dont think NO ONE can give you any right answers to your questions, not even the most intelligent of barfians could not answer them.
Secondly, why single out bradford and luton people? Why not say you dont want replies from anyone apart from the above stated? |
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| 08:50pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
ritz
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827295
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trucker, im gona try answering q1 using a theory i read a long time ago in some book. i copied taht article down on paper and still got it now and this is how it went...
see everything we see around us is limited and dependant i.e eveything has a starting poitn and an ending point. to give an example, a coffin has 8 corners, has start and end points and has limited space. the same example in a larger scale is earth; its limited. if i asked you to draw me an object or drawing with no limits, could you do it? can you draw a line that has no limits? most probably not. infact no, you cant draw something without limits because we agreed that everything is limited.
following on from that, the sum of all limited and dependant thing is still limited, i.e its finite. and all finite things have a start and an end. and everything that's limited needs something to sustain it. so we have to assume that there has to be somethingoutside the boundaries of limitedness to sustain them. this, through rational and enlightened thought and assumption we have come to call god, the infinite one (and self-subsistnece).
mankind, our lives and the universe have one thing in common; these things are dependant. we are born, we live, we die, we cant grow above a certain size in height nor weight (although ive seen some cases on tv who must eat humans for lunch by the look of them) ..yea so all of life is limited same goes ofr earth, moon, stars..all have a starting point and end point.the life of a star may be very long but is definitly limited i.e it has a starting and end. the universe is large and all that but its also limited. no scientist has got evidence to say that the universe is inlimited. even if we suggest its infinite means we are going beyind the bounds of what we can rationally assess. (and if we gona say that, then we have to challenge ourselves to find something in our world that we can see which is unlimited - and no matter how hard you search you're not gona find it. all we can find is limited and finite)
another thing they have in common, life, man and universe are all dependant. so that in order to exist they must have assistance from from something else, they are not self-sustaining. man needs gfood and water, plants and animal need the water cycle which itself is dependant on the sun which itself is dependant on the realtionship wuith the galaxies and burning mass (nuclear fusion of hydrogen nuclei)...see the relatinship?
nothing we can percieve can survive on tis own, without the helpd of other things, nothing that we can see is self subsistent. things exist but they dont have the power of existence.
there is one fact that is inextricably interwoven with the facts of being limited, finite and dependant. this fact is that there has to be an initiator for it all or a creator. when i said the sum of all limited and dependant things is still limited and dependant, i meant dependant on something to start, sustain life, and something to plan and develop to inter-relationship between all living things.
you gotta admit that nothing exists of its own nature, in complete control of its own creation. are we in complete control of our lives? no. you could sneak up behind me and chop my head off with an axe. im not in complete control of my life.
that is where the concept of A creator stems from. an unlimited creator that has arranged for all we see and percieve. anything that is limited must have been created otherwise it wouldnt exist. and it also depends on something. and there is no doubt to it. all limited and dependant things are created.
another way to look at this: if we take all the limited and dependant things, there are only 2 ways to explain them.
1- all of these things depend for their existence on something else, which itself depends on something else and so on and so forth or
2- all these things' existence derives from something that exists by its own nature and that is accodingly eternal and unlimited.
the first exaplantion wouldnt make sense because it still doesnt explain how anything came into existence to begin with, it will just go on and on and is illogical and without an answer fo us.
so we take the second explantion and we say that all limited and dependant things depend on something that exist by its own nature. but the boo-ing starts when it is desired that this something is a creator. of course everyone hates the idae of a creator dont they.
taking this idea of a creator, 3 things can be deduced.
1- creator was created by something else
2- creator and created at one and same time
3- creator which is eternal
the first deduction is false because if this "creator" was created by something else then it makes it limited and therefore part of the creation and so not the "ultimate creator".
second deduction is absurd, dont even need to go into it. creating itself and existing at the same time? naah.
thats why the creator can only be eternal and not depend on anything, time or space.
the thing is, the eternity and unlimited-ness of this "creator" cant be percieved by our minds because remember, our minds are too, limited. we cant percieve everything. (i hear a knock on the door, i know there's someone there, but i dont know who. could be you with your axe, i dont know all i can do is specualte) But to speculate on the description of this "creator" is not necessary becayuse it will just yield no result and be unproductive.
all i can asy to end is that i have never seen God, nobody has. i understand that the desire to understand something so important in our lives is natural. but the thing iswe cant understand something which we cant percieve becayse its sure that we cant percieve something thats infinite. (remember when i said draw something with unlimited boundaries? you cant do it, neithe can your imagine it nor percieve it)
so if you really want to know where god came from you need to ask him yourself, in person, because speculating about it will not work. it will only lead to misery and error as the unknown cannot be deduced by our limited minds.
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| 08:53pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827296
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well gezzer, shingo, basic and noor answered them already. i'm just wondering if jalebijar or Diamondgeeza have anything different to contribute. what makes you think no one cud answer them? are you implying the questions dont have any answers? because i thought that too for a while.
why single out bradford and luton people? i just posted why but you didnt understand it! you guys just keep coming back saying the same stuff over and over again even tho i've explained why.
why reply to my posts if you're not gonna read them? :|
what are the chances of outlaw nas or you and the other luton folks answering them questions? tell me because i wish i was wrong... |
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| 08:54pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
ritz
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827297
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shit i forgot this was fao after reading your questions. ok allow reading my post if you want. |
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| 08:56pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827298
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lol i suspected ppl wud just post anyway thats why i wanted to be restricted. |
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| 08:58pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827299
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i got to say its not even funny how nadiaa spouted that "Allah knows best!!/dont question anything u sinful bastard now get back in line with the rest of the flock!" stuff i was talking about. |
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| 09:06pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827301
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woahhhhhhhhhhhh! tigers woaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!
Firstly Lutonz...stop getting your nickers in a twist, how many times have I been cussed for coming from liverpool and how many people have made jibes at me bein a thief? Bro stop takin shit personal. Trucker has gave his reason.
Secondly, Trucker....I have to disagree with your assumption. I know someone who is from barfi, who could give a good explanation to you and as far as I am aware he is a Muslim from Luton. I actually think he could give a far better answer than me. But I don't wish to put the brother on the spot...and i'm gonna look a right fool if I found out he aint from Luton.
So ladies put your handbags down  |
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| 09:06pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
lutonzpaki
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827302
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Why generalise trucker? |
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| 09:07pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827303
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lutonz read my post please |
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| 09:14pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
lutonzpaki
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827305
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Basic im not taking this personally, but there could be someone who is equal intelligent and knows what they're talking about who are from luton or bradford, so thats what im getting that! |
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| 09:19pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827306
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Basic, why is everyone so sensitive about that little bit at the end of the thread? they'd like to compare it with the "NO COLORED PERMITTED" signs.
another thing, does anyone honestly think i am generalising? was SUNNY generalising when he told us on the chilling board not to discuss/debate about religon because we were too fucking dumb to do that? its true! sad but true.
can anyone ever recall lutonzpaki, outlaw nas or PFM ever contributing to a thread about islam without giving the kind of response i said they give?
am i putting them on the spot? i hope not because i didnt even want them anywhere near this thread.
for anyone to imply not even the most intelligent of barfians could not answer the questions, would be to undermine the intelligence of the members who have continually helped clear up religious matters time after time.
if i wanted cliched simplified overzealous generic stuff i'd have done an 'FAO' for crack cocaine, lutonzpaki, outlaw nas and the rest of the people that arent the most appropriate people to approach regarding these matters.
do i sound like a prick?
am i a pain in ur ass?
wud u like me to fuck off?
YES! YES! YES!
but am i wrong? HELL NO.
how about we focus on the thread subject instead of watching me criticise everything? i dunno, its just a thought...  |
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| 09:20pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827307
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lutonz that point has been stated dont worry...like I said I DO know of someone who can put that point across.
But chill negro  |
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| 09:21pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
red_cheeks
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827308
|
although i could answer all ur questions with enough inteligence and knowledge i think its best i dont...beause it would be a waste of time therefore all i wanted to say is trucker just because uve read some bradfordians or lutonians post some irrelavant/bakwas information regarding any previous threads,doesnt mean they're all share the same inteligence, yes uve apologised but u should have atleast given them a chance to SHARE THEIR KNOWLEDGE, if u would have disagreed with their view pionts all u had to do is to ignore their comments...simple!
/thank u |
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| 09:23pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827309
|
cheeks, why wait for what always happens in other threads? its just a precaution so it doesnt happen in here, but guess what? it did! LMAO! take a look at the posts that dont fit with the others.
maybe i shud do a thread for purely bradfordians and lutonians with the same questions and compare the difference... |
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| 09:29pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
red_cheeks
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827310
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its the bloody internet!!!!!!! ur bound to get stupid remarks form people! im not say what u said was totaly wrong yes that may have been the impression u got from other posts but it was rude of u do say what u did say. im from bradford i couldve just said' trucker ur thread is sh*t' and left it there but i didnt so what does that tell u?
ah well just like u said why has this thread been focused on the last part of the thread so ill leave it...but juts bear in mind, every persons opinion matters, maybe not u, its up to u take others knowledge and let it assist u in the furture or let it stand in ur way. |
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| 09:58pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
shingo
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827313
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"just because uve read some bradfordians or lutonians post some irrelavant/bakwas information regarding any previous threads,doesnt mean they're all share the same inteligence"
well to be fair i think he already explained that he more meant specific people from bradford and luton were likely to give the tpye of answer he wasnt looking for more than he meant everyone from those areas are idiots.
after all he did ask gezzer for his opinion and i do believe gezzer is from luton
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| 10:01pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
lutonzpaki
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827314
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Gezzer is from watford bro. |
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| 10:04pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
jamal
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827315
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1. I dont know. If God is the creator of everything and existed before everything, then God does not come from any place, as before there was "any place", God existed.
2. As people are judged on their deeds, i would say that mother thereas was probably going to heaven as to my knowledge she committed her entire life to good deeds and helping others. i cant speak for Bono and geldof, as i couldnt reasonably guess how much good or bad deeds they have done in their lives. People are rewarded for their good deeds and punished for their bad deeds. Therefore, many could visits hell either temporary or permanantly.
3. God judges, man does not judge. Therefore God decides who goes to heaven and hell, and not man.
4. If they are reformed and repented then yes it is possible that they may go to heaven, however, i assume that this would take many good deeds to counteract the bad deeds and to achieve the reward of heaven. They may still go to hell temporarilly to pay for their sins, or if not truly reformed, they may go to hell permanantly.
5. I do not know if we are randomly born into families. i think that the main point to note would be that god is all-knowing and all-controlling. Therefore if a person is meant to get to heaven then along the way God will make them a person that submits to the will of God by committing good deeds and generally being a good person. They may be a muslim, may become a muslim, may be of a different religion, or be of no religion. Obviously it would be more desirable if they were muslim, however there are people of many religions that are not muslim. Bear in mund that muslim means one who submits to god's will, and that people do not choose god, god chooses them.
Just to add, that all i have said is merely my understanding and my interpretation of the subjects and issues relating to the questions you asked. |
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| 10:09pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
red_cheeks
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827316
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"he meant everyone from those areas are idiots."
is that what he really meant...u just said geezer was from luton...doesnt that make him an idoit too?
like i said before lets leave it if thats truckers opinion then so be it!
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| 10:14pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
paki_from_mars
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827318
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trucker ur assuming im not very clever purely because i dont post much on the main board, its mainly because i cant be arsed... although i tend to read main board alot takin in other peoples viewpoints...... as for my post it was supposed to be humour...
ha ha hee hee ?
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| 10:22pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
gezzer
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827319
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No I'm not from Luton at all....But I do like the place. |
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| 10:25pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827322
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you don't like liverpool though do you gezzer....racist. |
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| 10:29pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
paki_from_mars
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827323
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1. where did god come from?
There is no actual material relating to where god came from all the major religions…therefore we can jus assume that the supreme higher being has been constantly there…
2. did mother teresa go to hell because she wasnt muslim? what about Bono and Geldof - are they gonna burn in hell too for not following islam?
Mother Theresa was a good individual and I don’t think u can compare bono or geldof in the same league as her…as in my opinion they are bad people turned good, they are people who did drugs etc lived life to excess and above all could be argued only do charity work to keep themselves in the limelight.
At the moment mother Theresa wont be in hell as that will happen at the day of judgement whether she gets sent to heaven or hell… but people with genuine love for humanity will get to heaven.
3. hypothetically, if i go to heaven and there's an annoying relative who wants me to be in his heaven, but i dont want to nor do i want him to be in mine - what happens? who gets their way? the better muslim?
Hypothetically speaking, heaven is your own perfect environment… therefore the choice is down to u what goes and what doesn’t… think of ur heaven as ur house u can let in who u want and keep out who u don’t want.
4. is there any hope for reformed rapists, pedophiles, murderers or are they just destined for hell? i once read it somewhere that anyone who takes the life of another person (muslim or not) is condemned forever.
Hope for reform for people through the prison system or through religion? I don’t think anyone Is destined for hell as such, through free will we can select our own destiny… all crimes are forgivable if a person is willing to reform themselves and shows enough remorse….supposedly however I don’t believe that… even by doing good deeds to cover up their bad deeds a person may still end up in hell for a time…
5. are we randomly born into families? is it unfair us muslims get born into muslim families while other people are born into non muslim families and will most likely 'not see the light'?
most muslims don’t see the light which is presented before them… however why is it that converts know more about their new religion than some1 who was born into that religion… I believe that people who are not muslims but still believe in one god and live their live in humane way will still get to heaven whatever religion.
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| 10:39pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
outlaw_nas
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827326
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pfm u thick git. i bet u got someone else to write that up for ya |
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| 10:41pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
outlaw_nas
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827327
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[waits for truckers typical bradford responce line] |
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| 10:41pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
paki_from_mars
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827328
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innit...
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| 10:46pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
outlaw_nas
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827330
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u shudnt even write a reply
2. did mother teresa go to hell because she wasnt muslim? what about Bono and Geldof - are they gonna burn in hell too for not following islam?
this has been discussed a lot on barfi
if they were that good, they would know islam is the right path, and as a non muslim she will not go heaven for now
unless she has asked for forgiveness and if its been accepted |
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| 10:48pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
outlaw_nas
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827331
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"And whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]
The hadeeth is: "By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no-one of this ummah, Jew or Christian, who hears of me then dies without believing in that with which I have been sent, but he will be one of the people of Hell." (Reported by Muslim, may Allaah have mercy on him, in al-Saheeh, 153).
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| 10:50pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
outlaw_nas
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827332
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trucker, still aint heard your answers? |
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| 10:50pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827333
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PFM, i think you explained them answers very clearly but i'm not sure if ur own tolerance is reflected by the deen e.g people who are not muslims but still live their life in a humane way will still get to heaven whatever religion - seems fair, but is that how it is stated in islam?
i know nobody here is going to have the right answers 100% but its been worthwhile to compare and contrast all the interpretations so far.
typical bradford responce line:-
nas, just because PFM gave an insightful reply doesnt mean my view of bradford pakis has changed - he always was the exception and the trend doesnt look its changing. especially with ur output. |
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| 10:51pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827334
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thats because i'm asking all the questions :|
in case you hadnt noticed, this thread is for my own research. |
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| 10:55pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827335
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"if they were that good, they would know islam is the right path"
do you know how stupid that sounds?
how many times have you been told the choice of religon is not an intelligence or integrity issue?
"as a non muslim she will not go heaven for now unless she has asked for forgiveness and if its been accepted"
lets move away from Bono and Geldof for a minute (they were just examples of humanitarians everyone wud recognise).
what you're saying is that all her good work pales in significance to the requirement of being a practising muslim? |
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| 10:57pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
outlaw_nas
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827336
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And whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]
The hadeeth is: "By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no-one of this ummah, Jew or Christian, who hears of me then dies without believing in that with which I have been sent, but he will be one of the people of Hell." (Reported by Muslim, may Allaah have mercy on him, in al-Saheeh, 153).
its what it says above
everyone has been given the chance to accept islam.
but obviously they good work will be taken into consideration and time spend in hell will be less than someone who has sined more |
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| 11:01pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
diamondgeeza
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827337
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i'm not a learned muslim and ultimately you'd have to ask an imam about what you asked..
1. where did god come from?
god was always there... you can't say god existed since time began since he created the concept of time itself.
2. did mother teresa go to hell because she wasnt muslim? what about Bono and Geldof - are they gonna burn in hell too for not following islam?
only allah knows.
3. hypothetically, if i go to heaven and there's an annoying relative who wants me to be in his heaven, but i dont want to nor do i want him to be in mine - what happens? who gets their way? the better muslim?
silly question. i think the fact that you're gonna be in heaven itself overshadows the fact that an annoying relative will be there..
4. is there any hope for reformed rapists, pedophiles, murderers or are they just destined for hell? i once read it somewhere that anyone who takes the life of another person (muslim or not) is condemned forever.
they are condemned but allah is all forgiving. if a person takes steps to distance himself from that environment (on the path of true forgiveness) then allah will show his mercy to him. there's a good hadith about this.. i'll try finding it.
5. are we randomly born into families? is it unfair us muslims get born into muslim families while other people are born into non muslim families and will most likely 'not see the light'?
only allah knows. if allah wants to show the person the light, he will grant the opportunity to the person one way or another. |
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| 11:03pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
outlaw_nas
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827338
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dg,ur not suppose to give Allah knows best answers |
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| 11:10pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
diamondgeeza
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827340
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lol then maybe he's asking the wrong people. the answers to life aren't found on a messageboard. |
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| 11:16pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
zedstar
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827341
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wen sum 1 asks u a question and u r unsure, with regards to Islam, then it is best to say 'Allah Knows Best'.... absolutely nufin wrong with tht... |
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| 11:21pm, 17th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
outlaw_nas
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827342
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MinMin
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827199
im not from bradford or luton and im gng to reply so :P
2,3,4,5.. only Allah knows.. and Allah knows best. :)
11:16am, 17th Mar 2005 fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG
trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827201
^^^^^^^^^
thats just the kind of crap i didnt want in here.
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| 09:40am, 18th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
SlyChick
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827373
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LOL DG I'm sure that's not what Trucker was looking for! He's merely being inquisitive.
Trucker:
"i know nobody here is going to have the right answers 100% but its been worthwhile to compare and contrast all the interpretations so far."
See DG and all. |
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| 10:52am, 18th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
outlaw_nas
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827384
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the truthest answer for who goes to heaven and hell, only Allah knows
and no one has the power to right to say. we dont know the real intentions off these people(mother teresa,geldolf, etc) |
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| 11:11am, 18th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827387
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nas, DG didnt say "Allah knows best" - he said "only allah knows" for just one of the questions and it was quite obvious that was the answer but what i was focusing on was whether their good work made a difference considering they arent muslims.
there's a reason i havent asked an imam these questions. in case you hadnt noticed, most muslims dont like hearing these questions and as i stated before - its very hard to approach an imam regarding all of this.
zedstar, thats true, but does that really say much? it doesnt answer anything.
'Allah knows best'? obviously! how cud he not? does that mean we arent suppose to know? so now its all on a 'need to know basis' and we dont need to know? :|
its a clear indicator when ppl only tell u stuff like "only Allah knows.. and Allah knows best", it means they're taking a passive approach with their deen. drifting along on autopilot and they dont wanna question it because it complicates things. |
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| 11:22am, 18th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
lil_post_lady
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827388
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can i answwer? |
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| 11:25am, 18th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827390
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you wud have to mail it to me.
i still havent determined how stupid u r.
there's a chance u mite pull it off,
but i'm not taking that chance
here. |
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| 11:27am, 18th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
lil_post_lady
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827391
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ermm...
mail u my stupidness?
i thought ive proved myself to lack in the brains (intelligence) |
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| 11:29am, 18th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827392
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pls get the hell out of my thread NOW.  |
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| 11:30am, 18th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
lil_post_lady
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827393
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but im bored  |
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| 11:31am, 18th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Trucker
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827394
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the playground is on the other board! :| |
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| 11:33am, 18th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
lil_post_lady
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827395
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can u come on the otherboard so i can play tig with you  |
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| 12:02pm, 18th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
shingo
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827398
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"is that what he really meant...u just said geezer was from luton...doesnt that make him an idoit too?"
no said that i beleve he meant thing x MORE than he meant everyone from bradford is stupid. though by misunderstanding that basic english you ain't really disprovng his misconceptions about bradford folk
nas that quote you gave was preceded by this one
003.020
YUSUFALI: So if they dispute with thee, say: "I have submitted My whole self to Allah and so have those who follow me." And say to the People of the Book and to those who are unlearned: "Do ye (also) submit yourselves?" If they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, Thy duty is to convey the Message; and in Allah's sight are (all) His servants.
PICKTHAL: And if they argue with thee, (O Muhammad), say: I have surrendered my purpose to Allah and (so have) those who follow me. And say unto those who have received the Scripture and those who read not: Have ye (too) surrendered? If they surrender, then truly they are rightly guided, and if they turn away, then it is thy duty only to convey the message (unto them). Allah is Seer of (His) bondmen.
SHAKIR: But if they dispute with you, say: I have submitted myself entirely to Allah and (so) every one who follows me; and say to those who have been given the Book and the unlearned people: Do you submit yourselves? So if they submit then indeed they follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message and Allah sees the servants.
islam is submission. as long as you submit to god then you are on the right path
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| 03:47pm, 18th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Goatboy
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827443
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Islam means submission.
It doesn't say to who or what. |
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| 03:57pm, 18th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
McSquared
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827451
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Insightful thread.
I was gonna pick this out:
At the moment mother Theresa wont be in hell as that will happen at the day of judgement whether she gets sent to heaven or hell… but people with genuine love for humanity will get to heaven.
Then surely it doesn't matter whether you're a muslim or not, making the religion a bit redundent?
But then outlaw nas came out with the Mother Teresa will be going to hell things.
I am confused. |
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| 04:05pm, 18th Mar 2005 |
fao Gezzer, jalebijar, Basic, Noor, Shingo,DG |
Goatboy
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 827454
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does the phrase "wind-up" ring a bell?
thats what nas was doing
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