| 01:02am, 26th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
sunny
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678417
|
the full articleis here - http://www.newindpress.com/Newsitems.asp?ID=IEH20021220101851&Page=H&Title=Top+Stories&rLink=0
/sunny |
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| 01:17am, 26th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
gezzer
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678420
|
thanks sunny for that |
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| 01:27am, 26th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
gezzer
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678422
|
sunny just looked it up the article aint there no more just got a blank screen. The rest of the site is ok. |
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| 02:57am, 26th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
universal
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678439
|
sunny your link doesnt work please provide the link!!!
now what did she have to say about bangladesh or pakistan. How come you never bring up links regarding those countries? Or is that my job? 
I can get millions of links about them, MAYBE I SHOULD |
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| 04:15am, 26th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
Harps
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678475
|
I found the same article on another site - couldnt find it on the one Sunny mentioned :
http://in.news.yahoo.com/021220/43/1zd4u.html
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| 04:37am, 26th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
neo
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678476
|
SUNNY U RACIST GIT
LEAVE GUJI'S ALONE |
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| 04:39am, 26th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
FLy_aSIAN_GyAL
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678477
|
 |
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| 04:44am, 26th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
neo
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678478
|
just kiddin!
the area i come from (near bhuj in kutch), the ppl are so gullible and listen to anyone who preaches religious stuff 
the police & airport ppl are corrupt.
i hate gujarat.  |
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| 01:21pm, 26th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
coolie
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678503
|
it is all true although i think conditions in that place are closer to rwanda than nazi germany |
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| 02:04am, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
HINDUZ_DO_IT
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678794
|
what and the treatment of HINDUS in Kashmir,bangladesh, pakistan is not comparable to nazi germany? |
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| 10:24am, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
sunny
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678852
|
kashmir is just a classic terrorist vs army occupation situation, a bit like say northen ireland, whereas bangladesh and pakistan are more veering towards nazism, yes i agree.
but atleast they don't pretend to being a democracy (ok musharraf does but no one believes him).
/sunny |
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| 11:05am, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
reformedpervert
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678860
|
"but atleast they don't pretend to being a democracy"
How is bangladesh not a democracy?? |
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| 01:41pm, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
sunny
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678902
|
how exactly is it?
/sunny |
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| 03:57pm, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
PANJABI_SCOUSER
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678920
|
and how can u compare the musharraf leadership as comparible 2 nazi germany?? |
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| 04:05pm, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
gezzer
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678923
|
Well the attacks on minorities in pakistan are being carried out by lone groups who are being hunted down. A few of them have recieved the death penalty for their crimes. Also the press, people in power, police etc etc are well behind the facists in gujarat [when i refer to press etc etc its the press of gujarat].
BUT in hindsight the situation of muslims is good in other states in india the same mayhem has not reached there and i hope it does not. People must remember that gujarat has always been a strong hold of such people but then it was also where ghandi jee came from. |
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| 04:08pm, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
isha18
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678924
|
FAO: gezzer
WHY HAVE YOU BLOCKED ME? TUT VERY BAD!!  |
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| 04:10pm, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
PANJABI_SCOUSER
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678925
|
hauw GEZZ |
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| 04:11pm, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
PANJABI_SCOUSER
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678927
|
ITS COS GEZZ FANCIES U ISHA AND HE'S CHANNELING HIS EMOTIONS IN A DIFFERENT WAY!! |
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| 04:12pm, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
isha18
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678929
|
YEAH YEAH VERY FUNNY.........................
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| 04:16pm, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
PANJABI_SCOUSER
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678930
|
AUW ISHA IS BLUSHIN
SHE ALL RED FACED!!!
AUW BLESS!! |
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| 04:17pm, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
gezzer
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678931
|
ah isha im not even ON MSN! |
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| 04:18pm, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
FunkSoulSista
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678932
|
is there actually something wrong with msn, or is it jus me??! |
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| 04:20pm, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
Patanjali
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678933
|
India's treatment of religious minorities is still better than say Pakistan or Bangladesh. All the above mentioned syptoms have been around in these countries for ages.
A press controlled by the government. Training camps inspired by religious groups. Little dis regard for human rights. Systematic and sometimes government assisted attacks on religious minorities (on Hindus and Sikhs in Bangladesh and Pakistan).
India is just sliding down the route where Pakistan and Bangladesh already are. Thats my take on it.
Not all of Gujrati media was pro-BJP or Modi. Most of the english media has been quite against it. |
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| 04:21pm, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
PANJABI_SCOUSER
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678934
|
auw gezz u r cold!! |
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| 04:22pm, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
gezzer
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678935
|
Ive mentioned that mate yes indias treatment of others is better than pakistans. The english print media you talk of is redif and hindutimmes and times of india i dont thik they are gujarat based. |
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| 04:27pm, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
Patanjali
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678936
|
But they do have Gujrat editions. I'm HP so I don't read Gujju newspapers and can't reach Gujrati so I don't know. But I do believe the media hasn't reacted well to Modi's landslide victory well. |
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| 04:34pm, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
gezzer
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678937
|
yeh good point mate respect to the indian papers that cursed at it. I read the indian times after his victory and there was an excellent piece on how the nation should mourn the win of such people and listen carefully to the national anthem and what it means. |
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| 06:04pm, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
isha18
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 678968
|
@punjabi_scouser - GROW UP!!!!!! TUT! |
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| 08:56pm, 27th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
Thunder
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 679006
|
Dont agree with teh staement Nazi Germany, although it does echo what "initially" happened in Germany, However Muslims are not being persecuted in every corner and on every street.
Gujarat is a peacful state , but the religious divide is in plenty of abundance for the influential and manuipulative kind of people to use for their own ends !
Thunder |
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| 09:09pm, 28th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
Bharat
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 679190
|
"kashmir is just a classic terrorist vs army occupation situation"[Sunny]
You are kind of right. Its a classic example what adding political correctness does.
Thru the microphone of political correctness: "kashmir is just a classic terrorist vs army occupation situation"
In Reality: "kashmir is just a classic nazi germany example" (afterall the entire religious minority has been thrown out)
Otherwise, how can one differentiate and/or explain the ethnic cleansing of one religious minority at one place from ethnic cleansing of another religious minority at another place. |
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| 01:38am, 29th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
reformedpervert
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 679204
|
THE RISE OF RSS FASCISM ONLY PROVES HOW RIGHT THE GREAT QUAID M.A JINNAH WAS ABOUT THE TWO-NATION THEORRY!! |
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| 01:44am, 29th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
sunny
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 679205
|
bharat, yes you're right the terrorists have targetted the hindu minority in kashmir and driven them out. but the comparison with nazi germany is to refer to state attempts not just at targetting religious minorities, but also actively teaching others to hate a small group.
whats happening in kashmir is no different to what happened in punjab before, whats been happening in assam, in nagaland and mizoram. the difference is that a lot of the people chucked out of kashmir are brahmins, and the government is willing to talk about them more.
if the government of india had been a bit more aware of its human rights abuses, i don't believe it would have alienated the kashmiri muslims as much, and driven them to help out the terrorists from over the border.
reformed, thats crap mate. the two nation theory never solved anything.
/sunny |
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| 02:56pm, 29th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
Bharat
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 679237
|
I see a similar problem everywhere, whether it was yester years Punjab, or Kashmir, Assam, Mizoram or Nagaland. The Govt. is does shit about it. Although your baseless caste references are nauseating, I believe you always have a valid reason to bring them forth. If these Caste Hindus are so ‘privileged’ in India that they are even cared for when refugees, kindly give references to where exactly the government is talking about them? Did the Election Commission delay the Elections until the rehabilitation, since that’s rule applied elsewhere? If they are getting a “different” treatment, kindly point at progress the centre or state governments have made in the last decade or more, in regards of not rehabilitation, but just better living conditions in the Refugee camps itself. The truth is an entire community is on the verge of extinction due to drastically depleting birth rates (due to inhuman living conditions) like anything and government or anyone else is doing shit.
Okay, now if you allow me, let me explain how Kashmir is the best example of Nazi Germany that exists in the entire world probably. There is two kinds of leadership that exists in Kashmir, Hurriyat (the umbrella organization of organizations who are fighting Indian rule), and second, the political community that want to rule within the Indian constitution, whether with more autonomy for the state or without it.
Hurriyat leader (incl. Mr. Bhat) themselves have declared that the terrorism can only exist if the people are with the terrorists (which you yourself agree on, I believe). So, I don’t know how this does not get into the ‘Nazi” category. Kindly enlighten me, but I doubt little that the propaganda of hate was not used when the members of the minority were kicked out or is not being used today to keep people support for their hateful campaign.
Now to the democratic parties, there is a state called Jammu and Kashmir, and then there is Kashmir Valley.
1. Although the State CM rules the entire area: Kashmir, Jammu and Ladakh. The CM must come from the Valley (ref. PDP, NC manifestos– two most popular political parties).
2. There is a discriminatory law governing Kashmir, which includes Zionist ideology. In Kashmir, starting from the Independence, non-Kashmiris cannot own property in Kashmir, while Kashmiris can buy property anywhere in India. This discrimination does not exist for Pakistanis in POK, while even the Ladakhis cannot buy a piece of land there in the Valley, and neither can a National bank like State Bank of India for one of its branch (the high profile case in the 60’s, which the bank lost).
3. This law/rule is Zionist b/c if a Kashmiri woman marries a non-Kashmiri; she loses right to own property in the Valley. This rule would actually clean the Hindu minority from the map of Kashmir forever, since the people marrying non-Kashmiris in the Refugee camps is large. And, for children who are born outside the boundaries of the Kashmir Valley boundaries, they don’t have any right to the land of their ancestors anyways.
If this is Nazist, or Zionist, I wonder what would be!
(I don’t want to comment on what exactly drove people to help terrorists, b/c if such explanations are applied consistently in all scenarios, it becomes really “silly”.)
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| 02:57pm, 29th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
Bharat
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 679238
|
seems like I wrote quite an essay, oh well....
"If this is Nazist, or Zionist, I wonder what would be!"
is actually
"If this is not Nazist, or Zionist, I wonder what would be!"
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| 03:22pm, 29th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
sandeep
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 679242
|
nazi germany economically prospered after it stabbed humanity in the back... organised masses  |
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| 06:18pm, 29th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
reformedpervert
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 679284
|
You still didn't answer my question, forget Pakistan but how is bangladesh not a democracy?
The anti-india BNP led Khalida zia was democratically elected. |
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| 10:47am, 30th Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
sunny
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 679443
|
i'm gonna reply to you a bit later bharat, thanks for the reply though.
reformedpervert - that election was marred by violence, people were stifled in their criticism of the regime and of zia... the lsit is bloody endless. if bangladesh is a democracy, then india is the most peaceful state in the world.
the subjugaiton of ethnic and religious minorities in bangladesh is worse than in india/.
/sunny |
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| 03:23pm, 31st Dec 2002 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
Patanjali
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 679634
|
I agree with Bharat. Well said bro. |
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| 06:18pm, 6th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
k4sh
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878358
|
6 years on lets hope things have changed. |
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| 09:16pm, 7th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
manchester_paki
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878379
|
Correct me if im wrong but aslong as the BJP has good support this wont stop. |
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| 09:46pm, 7th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
k4sh
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878380
|
35-45% of the Indian electorate support the BNP. Manchester Paki do you think these guys are all nazi sympathisers?
I'm not disagreeing with you btw, just asking the question. |
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| 09:54pm, 7th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
reelist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878381
|
nazi sympathisers?
are you just stupid or illiterate?
its one thing drawing a comparision to nazi scaremongering tactics, another to call them sympathisers.
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| 10:02pm, 7th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
k4sh
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878382
|
Nazi = short for National Socialism. Add to that the BJP's history of killing minority muslim and xtians and the similarities become clear.
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| 08:28am, 8th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
Kaalia_81
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878383
|
u really a dumb starni! but keep it up. |
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| 10:40am, 13th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
mits
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878440
|
BJP's history of killing minority muslim and xtians ???
Please do explain this "History". |
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| 12:24pm, 13th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878441
|
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/mar2005/bjp-m09.shtml
food for thought |
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| 12:43pm, 13th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
kaalia_81
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878442
|
gujarat is doing quite well thanks, muslims and all. basic, look to your own.
there would have been:
-an upsurge in mass movement of muslims out of gujarat,
-the leftist central govt coming down hard on a 'renegade' rightist state govt,
-a boycotting gujarat from rest of india and muslim world (middle eastern countries have many alliances, trade and business as well as socio with gujarat and has remained so)
gujarat would have collapsed from a continuation of communal clashes, riots and disharmony between hindus and muslims if things were really that bad, the mullahs would have led calls for mass protest and rioting)
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| 12:53pm, 13th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
kaalia_81
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878443
|
it does appear that plenty needs to be done to put those in the dock and in my eyes hung, thos that committed gross acts, whatever their religion.
however, to suggest this was a state pogrom is based upon spreading of malicious lies, pure vested interest for the parasites who sit on the far left of the political arena. that website source is questionable for that alone. you need to read alot more into how and what transpired in those days, accounts from across the board and not just pick on socialist and heavily biased and unscupolous sources.
why does gujarat still continue to be amongst the more advanced and forward thinking of states, let alone regions in the subcontinent??
Why does gujarat attract minorities from across india (let alone even the illegals from bangladesh and pakistan since partition)??
for those interested in the communal history of the state, then please do your research and read up on the causes, participants and nature of flare ups and riots. Its pretty complicated. |
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| 12:53pm, 13th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878444
|
You could have said the same about South Africa in the 80s dude. Just because people don't speak up, it doesn't necessarily mean that shit hasn't happened? |
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| 01:50pm, 13th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
mits
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878445
|
Basic, that source does not explain the history, it goes on about Godhra, one incident.
At the end of the day, most would agree that it was a tragic event, but I don’t think the BJP were behind it. In events like this, opposition parties are going to take advantage and make it into a political issue for their personal gain. If the Congress were in power it would have made no difference, the riot would still have occurred.
Those that were involved should get trialled, but that means both hindus and muslims because I’m sure there were culprits from both sides.
Now moving on from Godhra, on September 24th 2002, terrorists attack the holy sanctuary of Akshardham, Gujarat. The BJP were in power but there were no incitation, or encouragement of hindus to pick up arms and attack muslims, or start an anti-muslims campaign, instead they encouraged the opposite.
In fact, nothing like godhra followed.
BJP were in power during the earthquake that hit gujarat, and Modi, was CM, but yet muslims were catered for in the same way as hindus.
I just think, Godhra was seen as an opportunity for politics and it was fully taken advantage of by the opposition.
I’m not saying that BJP are 100% pure, at the end of the day they are a political party, and I’m yet to see a 100% pure party on this planet.
I remember Basic, you said the issues in the UK regarding conversion were made to be a little rife, I think the same can be said regarding Gujarat and the state of muslims.
Ad definitely not as bad as Nazi Germany.
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| 02:26pm, 13th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878446
|
Mits
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that the case remains or not. There may well be all this improvement, and if there clearly is. All power to Gujrat and it's Gujrati residents.
My difference of opinion with you and Kaalia is that you both deny BJP involvement when the media in it's broadest sense of the term have reported that they have been linked to the violence.
"I remember Basic, you said the issues in the UK regarding conversion were made to be a little rife, I think the same can be said regarding Gujarat and the state of muslims."
I think comparing the 2 is pretty lame dude. The conversion issue was largely an urban myth as it was unmeasurable. Instead it was riled up by 'witness statements' by people who have had their reps tarnished.
The massacres in Gujrat however were clearly evident, now you're telling me that no political influence played a part in those deaths? |
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| 03:22pm, 13th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
mits
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878447
|
No political influence? No, i think there may have been. However, i don't think its as bad as people make it. I think it was taken as an opportunity by the opposition to let loose on the BJP and pin everything on them…politics, I think.
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| 03:26pm, 13th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
mits
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878448
|
I also think the situation of muslims in gujarat and the rest of india is not as bad as people make it out.
once again, no way comparable with nazi germany, which is what this thread is about.
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| 10:22am, 14th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878451
|
So, basically the BJP had nothing to do with the deaths and the communal violence and it was all done by the opposition parties as a conspiracy?
Dude, that's on the same level as me saying that the hijackers for 9-11 weren't Muslim but Jewish.
Irrespective of political slant, various news agencies suggest a link between the BJP and the riots. Now how am I as a spectator going to gauge things? Am I really going to believe the statements of the BJP that has a history of scandal or news agencies that suggest a link?
You also say it was no way comparable. How so? Because of the scale size of Nazi Germany in comparison to Gujarat? Or is it the number dead? Both are insignificant. Deaths are deaths, sure it may not have been a comparison with regards to death toll, but the rhetoric coming out of said politicians does, and many Indians believe and agree.
The deaths in Gujarat where systematic, not mindless mob violence. That is widely acknowledged.
Political influence did play a part in the mob violence. Secret filming has highlighted that.
Sure it may not have been in comparison to Nazi Germany with regards to scale, but the rhetoric is spookily there. |
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| 10:52am, 14th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
mits
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878452
|
So, basically the BJP had nothing to do with the deaths and the communal violence and it was all done by the opposition parties as a conspiracy?
Erm, no! I swear i didn't say that
And if you think Gujarat is comparable with Nazi Germany, then i could go forever comparing almost evry human rights violations in the middle east and asia.
most if not all are religiously motivated.
As for the BJP's involvement, i think its exaggerated. Not saying no involvement but exaggerated.
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| 11:06am, 14th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878453
|
mits - why middle east and asia, you forgot Africa, Europe and the Americas.
Why would you need to refer to them? The topic is about Gujarat just stay on that topic...is it that hard? Or must you do headcounts od the dead in the Middle East and Asia as you just stated.
Irrespective of it being religiously motivated or not, that doesn't make it any better or worse. People kill people for an agenda. In the case of Gujarat it was to exterminate a minority population or at most, keep them down trodden. The same happens in other countries, I agree, but stick to topic fella. |
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| 01:58pm, 14th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
mits
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878456
|
well in that case, my view on comparing the two is a little over the top. |
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| 03:19pm, 15th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878461
|
why? |
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| 04:50pm, 15th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
reelist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878462
|
because one started a world war? |
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| 09:54am, 17th May 2008 |
gujrat compard to nazi germany |
k4sh
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 878469
|
Please do explain this "History".
Mitesh, are you denying that the BJP and their affiliated orgs (VHP, RSS et al) have at best been responsible for inciting mobs to attack Muslims (eg- post godhra) and xtians (eg the graham staines episode), and at worse turning a blind eye to this and blocking justice for the victims. |
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