| 10:38am, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Fojee_Rajpuri
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37376
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You're trumpeting stoning people to death? |
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| 11:02am, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
sufi
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37378
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Innit
Adultry is evil its a sin and by punishing these whores you get rewarded by allah and inshallah you get to commit all the adultry you want with 72 ashiwariya rai lookalikes inj heaven
well maybe a few that look like pamela anderson
oh and anyway stoning people to death can be a lot of fun |
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| 11:08am, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
sufi
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37379
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well maybe stoning them to death is a bit harsh i mean id still like to get a few good shots in but maybe not kill them ....
you could think of it as wicket keeping practice taking shots from different angles distances sort of thing
anyway who am i to argue if it says to death then to death it is
as they say allah knows best.... |
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| 11:10am, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Fojee_Rajpuri
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37380
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Is the whole 72 virgins in the after-life thing in the Koran? |
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| 11:22am, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
sufi
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37381
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i fooking hope so
the number of times ive been offerd it on a plate and ive said no i hope im gonna get some nookie up there
i hope theres a godd pharmacist up there too and he some stuff better then this shite "VEGA" paid £30 for 15 tabs and couldnt get up even once took 1 pill first gave it half an hour no effect took 2 more togther should have had a stiffy for a few days did i fuck
well to be honest i did but it was no thanks to the pill i could have managed once on me own they were there for part two that obviously never occured ..
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| 11:22am, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
sufi
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37382
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i fooking hope so
the number of times ive been offerd it on a plate and ive said no i hope im gonna get some nookie up there
i hope theres a godd pharmacist up there too and he some stuff better then this shite "VEGA" paid £30 for 15 tabs and couldnt get up even once took 1 pill first gave it half an hour no effect took 2 more togther should have had a stiffy for a few days did i fuck
well to be honest i did but it was no thanks to the pill i could have managed once on me own they were there for part two that obviously never occured ..
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| 11:22am, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
sufi
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37383
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i fooking hope so
the number of times ive been offerd it on a plate and ive said no i hope im gonna get some nookie up there
i hope theres a godd pharmacist up there too and he some stuff better then this shite "VEGA" paid £30 for 15 tabs and couldnt get up even once took 1 pill first gave it half an hour no effect took 2 more togther should have had a stiffy for a few days did i fuck
well to be honest i did but it was no thanks to the pill i could have managed once on me own they were there for part two that obviously never occured ..
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| 11:22am, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
sufi
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37384
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i fooking hope so
the number of times ive been offerd it on a plate and ive said no i hope im gonna get some nookie up there
i hope theres a godd pharmacist up there too and he some stuff better then this shite "VEGA" paid £30 for 15 tabs and couldnt get up even once took 1 pill first gave it half an hour no effect took 2 more togther should have had a stiffy for a few days did i fuck
well to be honest i did but it was no thanks to the pill i could have managed once on me own they were there for part two that obviously never occured ..
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| 11:22am, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
sufi
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37385
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i fooking hope so
the number of times ive been offerd it on a plate and ive said no i hope im gonna get some nookie up there
i hope theres a godd pharmacist up there too and he some stuff better then this shite "VEGA" paid £30 for 15 tabs and couldnt get up even once took 1 pill first gave it half an hour no effect took 2 more togther should have had a stiffy for a few days did i fuck
well to be honest i did but it was no thanks to the pill i could have managed once on me own they were there for part two that obviously never occured ..
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| 11:26am, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
sufi
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37386
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ooooooooooops what the f hapened there
any way just to point out i just realised i have never actully turned it down when its been offered on a plate
in fact to be 100% honest dont think it has ever been offered to me on a plate
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| 11:34am, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Fojee_Rajpuri
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37387
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I have an Iranian mate who told me it's all dog-shite and isn't a part of Islam but that this old Fakir in Iran would kidnap and drug young men, put them into a walled garden full of beautiful women with "lakes of honey and milk" and let him have his way with them.
Then he'd drug them again and take them out of it and when they come to they thought they'd had a vision of what Heaven would be like if they did the Fakir's bidding and killed his enemies.
Hence setting into stone the idea of the 72 virgins in the after-life for those who died in war etc. |
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| 11:41am, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
sufi
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37388
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seriously speaking its not a sexual thing it says that those who die for the cause will be waited on by 72 hoor a hoor is not a virgin its a spirtiual being like a fairy
the word hur is used in urdu hindi too its meaning has been twisted
anyway the way i see it as long as i get some im happy. if she looks like ms rai i couldnt care less if she was a virgin or the village bike
as a great gujji once said.
i want to ride my bicycle
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| 11:47am, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
sufi
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37389
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raj puri are you taking the piss ?
this is supposed to be a serious thread for belivers and not adulterous piss takers like yourself...
we muslims should be discussing logistics and technique like should you be allowed to use bricks or is it just stones and what size stone and once done should the stone be put back to wher they were picked up from you know like protect the enviroment and that ....dont wanna be upsetting them nutters innit |
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| 12:16pm, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Fojee_Rajpuri
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37390
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I'm being deadly serious.
I might be mistaken, mind.
Or lied to.
If it is indeed incorporated into the Koran, I do apologise. |
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| 12:59pm, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
brok
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37391
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do women get 72 virgin men too?
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| 03:45pm, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Johnny5
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37396
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There is no specific mention of 72 virgins in the Quran, as far as I am aware. |
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| 03:59pm, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Johnny5
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37397
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And there is no mention of stoning to death in the Quran. |
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| 04:14pm, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
sufi
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37398
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just cos its not mentioned in the quran dosent mean you cant do it....
as muslims we gotta have some fun
stoning to death apart from being a lot of fun can have many other benefits too
1 it encourages interaction between the community (althogh admittdley not between men and women)thus building community spirit
2 its one of the few events old and young can participate in equal measures although some older women do try to hog the throwing even the youngest can get a few good shots in
3 Not only is it theraputic it also acts as a workout encouraging blood flow to muscles supplnes whilst throwing and strength whilst lifting stones
so before any of you philistines dismiss it i say to you try it just once and then see.... |
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| 05:25pm, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Ms_XtReMe
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37401
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Sufi is taking the piss. Weird that you do that so much.
Agree with Johnny 5. There's no mention of 72 anything in the Quran. And I've read it several. However, there are several verses in the Quran that state - as true believers, if you do good, and enter paradise, you'll receive "pure" partners.
I don't know about youse, but that to me sounds like God is talking to both genders. Not just men.
The stoning thing infuriates me. STONING IS NOT PART OF ISLAM!!! No matter what people want to say, its not.
It was a Jewish tradition which Christ (pbuh) outlawed. Its part of the old testament!
So you gotta think - if God said no no to it in the Bible, why would He change his mind and ask Muhammad (pbuh) to restart it?
I have to say, though, at least Pakistan didn't just stone the woman to death and let the man slide - as its so often happened.
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| 05:29pm, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
nubbin
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37402
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Sufi is like that bloke at parties who tells loads of paedophile jokes and ends up being the only one laughing while everyone else stares at him in disgust. |
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| 05:41pm, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Ms_XtReMe
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37403
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^ LOL.
Yea. Wait how do you know?
Are you having flashbacks at the dead baby jokes catastrophe?
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| 05:45pm, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
nubbin
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37404
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Other people were laughing. :@ |
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| 05:53pm, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Chyld
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37406
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I see many ad-hominem attacks here.  |
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| 06:16pm, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
nubbin
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37407
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Aww chyld learned a new phrase! :D |
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| 08:53pm, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
mamatedave
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37410
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The stoning thing infuriates me. STONING IS NOT PART OF ISLAM!!! No matter what people want to say, its not.
Can you explain these verses then?
Volume 2, Book 23, Number 413:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar :
The Jew brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from amongst them who have committed (adultery) illegal sexual intercourse. He ordered both of them to be stoned (to death), near the place of offering the funeral prayers beside the mosque."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/034.sbt.html#003.034.421
Volume 3, Book 34, Number 421:
Narrated 'Aisha:
Sad bin Abi Waqqas and 'Abu bin Zam'a quarreled over a boy. Sad said, "O Allah's Apostle! This boy is the son of my brother ('Utba bin Abi Waqqas) who took a promise from me that I would take him as he was his (illegal) son. Look at him and see whom he resembles." 'Abu bin Zam'a said, "O Allah's Apostle! This is my brother and was born on my father's bed from his slave-girl." Allah's Apostle cast a look at the boy and found definite resemblance to 'Utba and then said, "The boy is for you, O 'Abu bin Zam'a. The child goes to the owner of the bed and the adulterer gets nothing but the stones (despair, i.e. to be stoned to death). Then the Prophet said, "O Sauda bint Zama! Screen yourself from this boy." So, Sauda never saw him again.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/034.sbt.html#003.034.421
Volume 3, Book 49, Number 860:
Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani:
A bedouin came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." His opponent got up and said, "He is right. Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." The bedouin said, "My son was a laborer working for this man, and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that my son should be stoned to death; so, in lieu of that, I paid a ransom of one hundred sheep and a slave girl to save my son. Then I asked the learned scholars who said, "Your son has to be lashed one-hundred lashes and has to be exiled for one year." The Prophet said, "No doubt I will judge between you according to Allah's Laws. The slave-girl and the sheep are to go back to you, and your son will get a hundred lashes and one year exile." He then addressed somebody, "O Unais! go to the wife of this (man) and stone her to death" So, Unais went and stoned her to death.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/049.sbt.html#003.049.860
Volume 7, Book 63, Number 195:
Narrated Jabir:
A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to the Prophet while he was in the mosque and said, "I have committed illegal sexual intercourse." The Prophet turned his face to the other side. The man turned towards the side towards which the Prophet had turned his face, and gave four witnesses against himself. On that the Prophet called him and said, "Are you insane?" (He added), "Are you married?" The man said, 'Yes." On that the Prophet ordered him to be stoned to the death in the Musalla (a praying place). When the stones hit him with their sharp edges and he fled, but he was caught at Al-Harra and then killed
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/063.sbt.html#007.063.195
Volume 7, Book 63, Number 230:
Narrated Al-Qasim bin Muhammad:
Ibn 'Abbas; said, "Once Lian was mentioned before the Prophet whereupon 'Asim bin Adi said something and went away. Then a man from his tribe came to him, complaining that he had found a man width his wife. 'Asim said, 'I have not been put to task except for my statement (about Lian).' 'Asim took the man to the Prophet and the man told him of the state in which he had found his wife. The man was pale, thin, and of lank hair, while the other man whom he claimed he had seen with his wife, was brown, fat and had much flesh on his calves. The Prophet invoked, saying, 'O Allah! Reveal the truth.' So that lady delivered a child resembling the man whom her husband had mentioned he had found her with. The Prophet then made them carry out Lian." Then a man from that gathering asked Ibn 'Abbas, "Was she the same lady regarding which the Prophet had said, 'If I were to stone to death someone without witness, I would have stoned this lady'?" Ibn 'Abbas said, "No, that was another lady who, though being a Muslim, used to arouse suspicion by her outright misbehavior. "
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/063.sbt.html#007.063.230
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| 09:33pm, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Ms_XtReMe
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37411
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You're referencing hadith.
Hadith which is questionable purely because of the time elapsed between when the event actually happened, and when it was documented.
Give me something out of the Quran why don't u. =) |
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| 10:39pm, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
mamatedave
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37412
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I always thought the sahih hadith (where the above passages are from) are considered to be one of the authentic groups of hadiths by muslim scholars and thus rank alongside the Koran, but if you're saying this is wrong I'll take your word for it. |
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| 11:27pm, 4th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Ms_XtReMe
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37413
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Tis true. So they say.
But ultimately - the Quran is the final source for Muslims - or it should be at least.
Hadith causes divisions. Divisions are not meant to happen within Islam.
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| 01:45pm, 5th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
simmer
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37415
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dave, why is it you always make cheap digs at Muslims or Islamic practices? Instead of the sly remarks why don\'t you just come out and say what you are thinking.
ms xtreme, its is very wrong of you to dismiss hadith is such a manner especially sahi hadith.
Just because you do not agree with whats written that doesn\'t make it \'questionable\'
Sahi hadith wouldn\'t be named as such if it wasnt 100% authentic and it isn\'t just a handful of scholars who have decided this but the concenous exists across the board.
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| 02:36pm, 5th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Fojee_Rajpuri
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37417
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Dude, I think he is Muslim. |
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| 10:56am, 6th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
sufi
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37421
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Sufi is like that bloke at parties who tells loads of paedophile jokes and ends up being the only one laughing while everyone else stares at him in disgust.
two paedos in a pub one sees a twelve year old and nudges the other
"shes a bit of allright aint she"
the other replies
" you should have seen her when she was younger "......
 |
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| 11:17am, 6th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
plagarism
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37423
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i always thought sufis posts were quite fair |
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| 01:24pm, 6th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
paki_from_mars
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37424
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ms extreme what a bullshit post. Dont make silly liberal leftist rubbish statements please.
as for the stoning to death, its a punishment that fits the crime. |
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| 06:47pm, 6th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
rikshawalla
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37432
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as for the stoning to death, its a punishment that fits the crime.
Come again, you don't seriously believe stoning is a just and fair way to deal with someone who has committed adultery. |
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| 09:02am, 7th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
bathing_ape
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37434
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I met lots of muslim blokes who were known as stoners.
I thought it meant something totally different..... |
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| 08:09pm, 9th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
mamatedave
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37451
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ermmm simmer no I wasn't making a cheap dig or being sly, just asking a question relevant to the topic which I'm glad I did as it appears what I posted initially was in fact correct. |
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| 09:39pm, 9th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Ms_XtReMe
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37457
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ms xtreme, its is very wrong of you to dismiss hadith is such a manner especially sahi hadith.
Just because you do not agree with whats written that doesn\'t make it \'questionable\'
What? Have you read Islamic history dude? Do you know how the hadith were compiled?
ms extreme what a bullshit post. Dont make silly liberal leftist rubbish statements please.
as for the stoning to death, its a punishment that fits the crime.
Whether or not YOU think its a suitable punishment for the crime (trust me, I'd agree with you, I'd even advocate for the cutting off genitals for at least year before the stoning is organized) - it is NOT part of the religion.
I'm sick and tired of the nonsense people come up with to support their own personal agendas. Then they call ME the rebel. lol. Those people are cheating GOD. Does that mean anything to you?
If scholars agree with that some hadith is questionable - even Sahih hadith - who you think you are to call me a leftist? |
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| 10:45am, 14th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
bathing_ape
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37489
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I thought my stoner comment was quite funny, philistines. |
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| 11:26am, 19th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
khanz
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37532
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mis extreme, you talk some serious crap, name me one righous scholar who defutes sahih hadith??..not-mymatedave,im thinking your a freaky shia,im i correct? |
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| 09:26pm, 20th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
sixth
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37559
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lol@sufi. |
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| 08:48am, 21st Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
bathing_ape
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37577
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mmmmmmm @ freaky Shia chicks |
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| 02:33pm, 21st Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
dr_AZ
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37593
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"
Sufi is like that bloke at parties who tells loads of paedophile jokes and ends up being the only one laughing while everyone else stares at him in disgust.
two paedos in a pub one sees a twelve year old and nudges the other
"shes a bit of allright aint she"
the other replies
" you should have seen her when she was younger "......
dude that whole post would serious offend some of my diehard sufi mates but it sure as hell was funny |
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| 05:41pm, 21st Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Ms_XtReMe
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37598
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mis extreme, you talk some serious crap, name me one righous scholar who defutes sahih hadith??
Tell me one scholar who practices all the hadith as said? Almost EVERY scholar out there has something negative to say about the extreme hadiths out there. The ones about Jihad and Stoning particularly.
And, more importantly, you don't need a scholar to see the blatant contradictions that certain hadiths have with the Quran.
Just as an example, killing someone is strictly prohibited out of war for Muslims. And even in war, there are certain rulings you have to follow. But then there's about 50 hadiths that make exceptions to the rules.
im thinking your a freaky shia,im i correct?
lol. I like that. Is that what you say about anyone who disagrees with you? |
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| 08:40pm, 21st Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
khanz
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37602
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freaky shia was directed to matedave.. I can name u many scholars,but i wont, because they will be of no use to you as your more of a self-study sort of guy/girl who thinks that study of islam can be done with reading a few books. U must remember undestanding th quran is not as easy as you think, unless you are a master in arabic language and undestand the quranic sciences as to when,which verse was revealed at what time. Do u know the sciences,the strenght of chain of transmissons of hadith,what hadiths are are weak,strong? Hence,this cannot be gained by reading a few books but indeed there is need for a teacher(scholar) self-sudy is the reason for these opinions of war,sucide bombings that many adhere to as they are to ignorant to sudy further but rarther pick up a few points n think they are righteous muftis.. |
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| 08:48pm, 21st Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Ms_XtReMe
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37604
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Didn't the Sahaba of our Prophets' time have to do self-study in order to learn the Quran?
Please, spare me the lecture on how people were super-human and had high capacity ROM's in their heads to store all the data being disclosed to them. I've heard all these theories before. They don't coincide with actual events.
sucide bombings that many adhere to as they are to ignorant to sudy further
Come again? I don't understand what you just said there. Can you show me even half a verse from the Quran that condones the killing of innocent people (ie. suicide bombings). Hell show me something that says suicide is permissible within our religion. |
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| 08:58pm, 21st Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
khanz
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37605
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wherd did u get that sahaba had to self-study.? Tel me more,something u just made up i guess,although it may be true.. I was refering to those that (due to self-sudy) think its accepple to blow their brains out,if askd they would produce a surah and take THEIR own meaning to justify it. |
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| 09:00pm, 21st Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Ms_XtReMe
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37607
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Dude, there are hadith that support the "blowing your brains out" actions - they can be interpreted as such.
Would you like me to post them? |
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| 09:16pm, 21st Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
khanz
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37608
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post them,but also give me the full transmisson as to how many narrators and what circumstances,situation it was at the time they were orignally narrated,because without that how can one undestand the true meaning.. |
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| 09:09am, 22nd Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
some_body
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37609
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http://www.mihpirzada.com/articles/fitnamovie.html
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| 11:23am, 22nd Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
simmer
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37611
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What? Have you read Islamic history dude? Do you know how the hadith were compiled?
Ms Xtreme, I said it was wrong for you to dismiss Sahih Hadith. Sure there are other hadith which may be questionable but sahih and bukhari should be taken as 100% accurate.Hadith are ranked with sahih being classed as 'maqbool' and being the highest rank.
Again, just because you do not agree with whats written or you decide to pick and choose what you like that doesnt mean the text in question is fabricated. |
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| 04:23am, 23rd Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
dr_AZ
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37617
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ms xtreme i gots to say ur way of
interpreting and understanding hadith seems
questionable
but for stoning it was a part of islam and a
punishment under shariah law th question is
that is it aplicable today
"Whatever the Messenger giveth you take it
and whatever he forbiddeth abstain from it."
[Al-Hashr: 7] |
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| 05:43pm, 23rd Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Ms_XtReMe
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37618
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I'm not here to win, nor do I impose my own beliefs on others. I merely question those things that don't make any sense TO ME. I question certain Sahih hadiths because again, they do not coincide with the Quran.
In the matter of stoning. Here is three separate hadiths by Bukhari which reference Ar-Rajm (stoning).
No. 3387 - Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
The Jews came to Allah's Apostle and told him that a man and a woman from amongst them had committed illegal sexual intercourse. Allah's Apostle said to them, "What do you find in the Torah (old Testament) about the legal punishment of Ar-Rajm (stoning)?" They replied, (But) we announce their crime and lash them." Abdullah bin Salam said, "You are telling a lie; Torah contains the order of Rajm." They brought and opened the Torah and one of them solaced his hand on the Verse of Rajm and read the verses preceding and following it. Abdullah bin Salam said to him, "Lift your hand." When he lifted his hand, the Verse of Rajm was written there. They said, "Muhammad has told the truth; the Torah has the Verse of Rajm. The Prophet then gave the order that both of them should be stoned to death. ('Abdullah bin 'Umar said, "I saw the man leaning over the woman to shelter her from the stones."
Then here's two hadiths by Bukhari where the people are questioning whether or not Ar-Rajm was even practiced by the Prophet (pbuh)
No. 6401 - Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
'Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, "We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book," and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession." Sufyan added, "I have memorized this narration in this way." 'Umar added, "Surely Allah's Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him."
and
No. 6409 - Narrated Ash-Shaibani:
I asked 'Abdullah bin Abi 'Aufa about the Rajam (stoning somebody to death for committing illegal sexual intercourse). He replied, "The Prophet carried out the penalty of Rajam," I asked, "Was that before or after the revelation of Surat-an-Nur?" He replied, "I do not know."
NOW, one has to think, why all the confusion, why all the bickering back and forth - when in the Quran it CLEARLY states:
Noor, 24:2 -
The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
Here's my theory about the hadith vs. Quran. Hadith (the ways of the Prophet) were more structured for the people residing AT THAT TIME! That is why, a lot of the hadith are not applicable to our time. The Quran, however, is a guideline that can be applied to any time or people. Its common sense, why would the Prophet (pbuh) - ANY Prophet, ask his people to follow his ways whether than the written word from God Himself?
It just does not make sense.
And then there are Sahih hadiths that back up this claim as well. See below.
No. 108 - Narrated 'Abdullah bin Az-Zubair:
I said to my father, 'I do not hear from you any narration (Hadith) of Allah s Apostle as I hear (his narrations) from so and so?" Az-Zubair replied. l was always with him (the Prophet) and I heard him saying "Whoever tells a lie against me (intentionally) then (surely) let him occupy, his seat in Hell-fire.
And
No. 109 - Narrated Anas:
The fact which stops me from narrating a great number of Hadiths to you is that the Prophet said: "Whoever tells a lie against me intentionally, then (surely) let him occupy his seat in Hell-fire.
The Prophet (pbuh) TOLD his people not to write down his words for fear of it being incorrect.
Again, I'm not trying to put doubt in your minds. For all I care, you can be Athiests, it bothers me not.
This is my last post on this thread.
Laterz. |
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| 09:18pm, 23rd Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
khanz
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37621
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xrte- dude, like i said before,self-study,narrating and understanding quran n hadith by your own understanding is dangerous...you must rmbr hadiths and quranic understandings were done by people of usualy high intelect and masters of the relevent sciences, im not going in to a long post about this topic as i am most deffinitly not in a positon to do so...its a thin line, can even lead one to come out the fold of islam, if u seriously want your misunderstandings( my opinion) to be clarified seek from those that know,learnerd scholars. |
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| 08:28am, 24th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Candide
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37623
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Religion and its holy scriptures are for the common man on the street. Not the sole property for intellects, scientists and brainiacs.
Its written in a way for simpletons to understand. That is why religions have existed and followed for thousands of years. Its man who tries to make religion and its scriptures confusing and difficult. Anyone who comes out with the nonsensical retort of “you’re not a scholar” or “you need to know the original language” are making excuses for their own failings at not understanding scripture.
In all religions, the godhead demands worship and to follow his/her laws. He/she doesn’t want you to query them. Man questions them, and constructs evermore elaborate confusing rationalizations to explain the workings of the godhead and religious law.
Idiotic theological musings such as “who are the seven under the shade of allah’s thrones” or “how many angels can stand on the head of a pin” etc are a waste of time.
If you consider a book/scripture etc was handed down by god him/herself, via angels, messengers, fedex, whoever, then you should take that as the starting point. The words that lie within theses pages are meant to be the gospel-truth (pun intended).
Stories, traditions, rituals etc which are written down/followed by man, regarding the actions/words of another man should be taken as secondary. It doesn’t matter how holy the man was or how noble the narrator was.
And only if it doesn’t contradict the book/scripture given by the godhead.
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| 08:01pm, 24th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
khanz
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37626
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candice- i agree with some points u make, but u say is 'simpleton for the common man'. Relgous scriptures,books were writtin at a time and in a language that is not for the average man to undestand,unless sudy is done.. Im taking muslims,hindus,christians,jews,sikhi, would u not ask some, teacher/priest to go through it with u. Personally, i think its dangerous to take your own interpretaition, its like these suicide bombers,theyl give u tx to justify wat they do is right,u think these people take on extra research, i think not! |
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| 09:09pm, 24th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
reelist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37629
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ROFL@candice!
i think m'sex has started a revolution. typical.
dangerous to take your own interpretaition
more like the other way around pal.
but even if you were right, who says these teachers have the right way of thinking and everyone else is wrong? |
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| 09:44pm, 24th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
khanz
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37633
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reelist- thats why u should research with numerous teachers,common sense prevails to the ones that want to educate themselves in that feild, i aint no saint,but i would never quote verses of quran n hadith bcus quite frankly i dnt have the knowledge and wisdom to do so. |
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| 08:45am, 25th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Candide
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37634
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“Relgous scriptures,books were writtin at a time and in a language that is not for the average man to understand”
Then please explain how it is that eg – you find Christians all around the world who cant speak/read Latin, Aramaic, Hebrew, or ancient Greek. Or hindus around the world who cant speak/read Sanskrit. Or moslems who cant speak/read Arabic. Or Jews and ancient Hebrew.
I’m not talking about just nowadays, but for as long as each religion has expanded beyond its natural territories and began converting foreigners.
“Personally, i think its dangerous to take your own interpretaition”
No. Its dangerous to take someone else’s interpretation without finding out for yourself.
“like these suicide bombers,theyl give u tx to justify wat they do is right,u think these people take on extra research, i think not!”
Actually the vast majority of suicide bombers and their recruiters/leaders have been arabs or people from the middle east. Arabic is their mother tongue. The leaders (both military and religious) of al-qeada, hamas, hezbollah etc are all Arabic speakers. They have done the research and found obscure lines of scripture the offsets what it says in the koran, and in promoting them and certain hadiths rather than the koran, they have been able to justify suicide bombers, killing of innocents, forced conversions, and as MsX has pointed out to you already – stoning. They brainwash lazy fuckers who cant be bother to read and find out what it actually says about their religion themselves.
“i aint no saint,but i would never quote verses of quran n hadith bcus quite frankly i dnt have the knowledge and wisdom to do so.”
That’s a weak argument. Nearly as bad as the “you are not a scholar” or “you need to know the original language”. Nowadays you have more resources to learn your religion that any other period in the past. There is no excuse for not taking the time to read your holy books, but rather watch movies, tv, surf the net, etc. It’s idiotic to then TRY to argue with someone who has. Its complete laziness to call yourself a member of a religion, and at the same time know bugger all about it, except what you have heard.
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| 08:47am, 25th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Candide
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37635
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“i think m'sex has started a revolution. typical.”
Khanz is probably MsX’s new undercover name. She couldn’t find anyone to win a thread over, therefore had to create one.
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| 09:56am, 25th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
khanz
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37637
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'its idiotic to argue with someone that has'. Your one statement has summed up what your all about,you see,this what happens when you research with your own means. along with intense study in religon comes adab(respect) and wisdom,which u lack as these cannot be taught through books, any preist,pundit,rabai,imam will tell you that. Did u get your degree (if u have one) through studying books by your lonesome,i think not,religon is a whole new thing. Sacred knowledge is not obtained due to ones own observations.. It leaves me with no doubt that u belong to 'the 'bidah brigade' precisely the very reason why their is divison amongst the ummah..il leave u on your high hoarse,and your immense knowledge of sacred sciences(not),debating behind you pc screen,as its the only place ul get heard, oh and you might find that 'sucide bombars justify their actions from verses of the quran (do your research girl),which is nonesense,they do this due to their OWN interpretation..anyway goodluck with your sudy, see you on peace tv soon. |
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| 09:57am, 25th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
khanz
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37638
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'its idiotic to argue with someone that has'. Your one statement has summed up what your all about,you see,this what happens when you research with your own means. along with intense study in religon comes adab(respect) and wisdom,which u lack as these cannot be taught through books, any preist,pundit,rabai,imam will tell you that. Did u get your degree (if u have one) through studying books by your lonesome,i think not,religon is a whole new thing. Sacred knowledge is not obtained due to ones own observations.. It leaves me with no doubt that u belong to 'the 'bidah brigade' precisely the very reason why their is divison amongst the ummah..il leave u on your high hoarse,and your immense knowledge of sacred sciences(not),debating behind you pc screen,as its the only place ul get heard, oh and you might find that 'sucide bombars justify their actions from verses of the quran (do your research girl),which is nonesense,they do this due to their OWN interpretation..anyway goodluck with your sudy, see you on peace tv soon. |
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| 04:47pm, 25th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Candide
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37639
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You’ve made a number of wrong statements –
“its idiotic to argue with someone that has”
I did not type those words.
“along with intense study in religon comes adab(respect) and wisdom,which u lack as these cannot be taught through books, any preist,pundit,rabai,imam will tell you that.”
lol you know nothing about me to make that statement. What you learn from a priest/pundit/rabbi, imam is THEIR point of view. Its like watching the Godfather film OR reading the Godfather book. The film is excellent. But end of the day, its coppola’s interpretation of the book. Reading the book is far better because it’s the Puzo’s unabridged, undiluted version. The way he wanted the public to receive it.
“Did u get your degree (if u have one) through studying books by your lonesome”
I didn’t say you read your holy scriptures by your lonesome and that’s it. By all means consult others. BUT at the end of the, its always best to do the research yourself to find out if what you are taught is correct.
“religon is a whole new thing”
No it is not. Religion has been around since the first man looked around and thought “what the fuck am I doing here”. Actually archeological evidence has shown that Neanderthal man performed “religious” rituals. Religion is far from being a new thing.
“Sacred knowledge is not obtained due to ones own observations”
??? Your saying its obtained from someone else’s??? So if lets say, a Christian after years of searching, mediating, praying etc, converts to islam of his own free will, he doesn’t obtain the scared knowledge of the religion from observation and searching?
“It leaves me with no doubt that u belong to 'the 'bidah brigade' precisely the very reason why their is divison amongst the ummah”
lol@bidah. So taking the koran as first source and everything else as second or third sources and differentiating between them is bidah?? HAHAHA. Again, you know bugger all about me to make that statement.
“your immense knowledge of sacred sciences”
Another wrong statement. I find it odd that you said that MsX is wrong and asked for proof, which she then posted up. And then you say “i would never quote verses of quran n hadith bcus quite frankly i dnt have the knowledge and wisdom to do so.” If you have no knowledge, then how can you claim that someone else is wrong??
“(do your research girl),”
Again wrong.
Time for alcohol me thinks. |
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| 08:47pm, 25th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
khanz
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37640
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ok, first of all u know n i know how you tryd to misinterpret what i posted above, u should have went to a teacher to help u, lol.. May have swayed away from the orignal topic,but tis all good.. I stand by what i posted above,apart from the girl part..this is getting a bit to deep for me to indulge in, il leave it to the intelectual,wise,religous saints like yourself...and of course ms Xrteme, let me know when u guys reach jaanat, il hope to be with u. |
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| 08:52pm, 25th Apr 2008 |
Subanallah at last islamic law |
Ms_XtReMe
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 37641
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They have done the research and found obscure lines of scripture the offsets what it says in the koran, and in promoting them and certain hadiths rather than the koran, they have been able to justify suicide bombers, killing of innocents, forced conversions, and as MsX has pointed out to you already – stoning. They brainwash lazy fuckers who cant be bother to read and find out what it actually says about their religion themselves.
BANG, BANG! Ma baby shotttt meeee dowwwnn.
Khanz is probably MsX’s new undercover name.
The run-on sentences would kill me. =(
let me know when u guys reach jaanat
Honey I was aiming for Dozak. |
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