| 09:12pm, 4th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36924
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lol you do have major issues with polygamy don't you.
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| 10:06pm, 4th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
Ms_XtReMe
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36926
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This is a wonderful idea. I'll endorse it.
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| 12:09am, 5th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
platinum786
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36929
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meh... it's another kirma nirvana or whatever that jaswinder's project is called.
The only solution they offer is to break up asian, particularly Pakistani families.
The solution is not to make refuges to ruin peoples lives in, the solution is to setup support networks, credible ones within the communities that are affected.
These networks should act as points of advice for parents who's children won't wed and children who's parents won't listen. They should be used to advice both sides to come to some sort of agreeable solution.
Yeah in some cases there is no helping them, but in many it's just a case off clearing the air.
This should be done within families/ castes first and branched out into communities. We need people from each baradari willing to take courses to help build those inter-generational bridges, not refuges to run away too. |
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| 08:16am, 5th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
militant_atheist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36930
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"lol you do have major issues with polygamy don't you."
well in contrast to yourself i am a civilised person living in 2008 with rules from 2008, not living in 2008 with rules from 1400 cave years. |
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| 09:11am, 5th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36933
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what happens when we move into 2009?
You also said that you follow all rules of 2008, so does that mean you reject all laws created before 2008 then?
If we go 5000 years in the future, would your rules of 2008 still apply? |
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| 11:29am, 5th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
reelist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36940
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"Yeah in some cases there is no helping them, but in many it's just a case off clearing the air. "
thats a nice theory, but an unlikely one. the cases where a "clearing of the air" (what is that, anyway?) is needed, don't need intervention. its the cases where there is no choice for which this organisation should be set up for.
and before you cry "stop picking on us", this applies to all asian families. i've seen this happen to hindu, sikh and muslims alike.
in most cases (in my experience), the repercussions of turning down an arranged marriage is one of exile from the family. disowning, whatever you want to call it. this breaks up the family anyway, so:
"The only solution they offer is to break up asian, particularly Pakistani families"
is a non arguement anyway. in the most severe cases, when there really is no alternative, its a my way or the highway scenario.
the truth is, if the parents are so adamant for their child to get married, to the point where there is no reasoning with them, then no organisation offering "advice (to) both sides to come to some sort of agreeable solution. " will prove effective. |
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| 11:15am, 6th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
platinum786
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36954
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I myself have tuned down several rishtay, i felt the time wasn't right... (i was at uni for a start)... it was no big deal.
i had gran try to talk to me and other family members try to influence me but because i say it as i see it, i had no problems.
a lot has to do with the individuals and thier own lack of strength. If they are willing to run away to a hostel, why not stick it out and home and wait for them to kick you out? call thier bluff, see what they do.
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| 11:42am, 6th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
reelist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36955
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you're a bloke. i know women who have suffered physical abuse because they have turned down a rishta.
would you tell them to stick it out? |
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| 12:20pm, 6th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
platinum786
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36956
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Defintely not.
I just have heard a lot of people slate the Kirma Nirvana group for just not taking any interim steps between telling people to flee from their families. |
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| 12:25pm, 6th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
platinum786
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36957
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I mean i can't imagine it ever getting that bad that a parent would attack thier own child, but it's a funny old world.
For a while my dad got well weird over things, he was insisting that i would marry who i was told to, and i was insisting otherwise, there was that pressure there, but i don't think it ever got to a stage were i felt forced, but it was about as bad.
Now at that stage he did get angry a couple of times, raised his voice, I think if i had turned to one of these help groups they would have told me to leave or something...
All that was needed was dialouge, i used my sisters as a medium, they told dad my side when he wouldn't hear it from me.
I'm going to have an arranged marraige, but the person i am marrying will be someone I had a choice in marrying, rather than what suited the agenda's and mind maps of my relatives.
it's left a few relatives unhappy, fk em. |
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| 02:38pm, 6th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
reelist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36958
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but this is it, you didn't turn to one of those organisations. because you didn't need to.
the people that do are the ones who need to.
thats why these organisations are good.
so why the big problem with them? |
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| 03:55pm, 6th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
platinum786
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36959
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The problem is that from everything I have heard/read about them, the only solution they offer is to help you run away.
I'm a strong willed individual, i get what i want. Others aren't as pushy as me. If they were they might also get what they want. Now at this point im not saying people should be more pushy, all i'm saying is that ofen in these situations there is more room for conversation and/or convincing etc.
These organisations should start at the root of the problem, not ONLY offer a last minute escape. It's like abandoning ship if the deck has got wet in some cases.
Time and Time again I have stressed that there is a need to help bridge the communication gap between generations. Pulling them apart will not help. |
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| 04:16pm, 6th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
reelist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36960
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your parents listened to your sister, fair enough.
do you really think they'd let a 3rd party organisation come to them to get involved in their own family business? unlikely. and the repercussions of a daughter turning to such an organisation can be extreme, to say the least.
its a nice idea, bridging the gap. but not a realistic one. |
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| 04:27pm, 6th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
militant_atheist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36961
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basic- u need to move with the times, 'rules' from 2008 will not be so different to 2009, where as from 1400 years ago will be slightly outdated...
so do you think its wrong for men to marry 4 women? |
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| 09:13pm, 6th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36962
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I do move with the times. I drive an automobile, I own a mobile phone, I use a laptop computer. I embrace advancement but I still have my beliefs. Not rules, beliefs.
Subtle difference there. Rules are more interchangable than belief systems. The rules to abolish religion can come about, that doesn't necessarily mean that people will believe in atheism.
For arguments sake then, if there was a major Islamic revolution in 2050 whereby the majority of the World's population becomes Muslim and they adhere to Muslim laws, would you then try and fit with the times of 2050?
Your argument of getting with the times is weak because of that reason. There is a difference between getting with the times and believing in something that creates your ideal self. If your ideal self is an atheist and all of a sudden there is a religious re-emergence, are you telling me that you will become religious for that time period? I doubt it.
So why would you expect people to change their beliefs from 1400 years ago? Further still, you pretty much assume that history is a pointless concept, yet a lot of atheist ideology stems from history aswell. You never read the works of Karl Marx? You saying that his arguments aren't useful today? Despite him being anti-religion?
If you're challenging the concept of 'belief', the laws of science also have a historical concept. The Hipporcratic oath for example dates further back than 1400 years, yet every new Dr pledges the oath. Why would they do that? Shouldn't Doctors change with the times and do away with the hippocratic oath? Let's just dumb it down to 'I pledge to be the wickedest Dr innit'.
My point is, we all adhere to laws and ideas that date back hundreds and even thousands of years, and if you don't believe that, you're very nieve. It's also wrong to assume that every current law is the right law. If we go by that analogy Nelson Mandella wouldn't have gone against the legal system of apartheid in South Africa. The reason why Nelson Mandella did what he did, is because he believed it was wrong, it may have been a religious belief or a humanitarian belief, despite his beliefs being illegal, he made them public and challenged the law at that time.
'so do you think its wrong for men to marry 4 women?'
A leading question but hey, it depends. People have different reasons. If it was for adulterous pleasure, then no. If it was to offer love and security to a woman who agrees to that love and security along with the first wife, well then who am I to stick my beak in, or you for that matter? |
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| 10:53pm, 6th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
think_tank
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36963
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Msg no: 36962 = "For arguments sake then, if there was a major Islamic revolution in 2050 whereby the majority of the World's population becomes Muslim and they adhere to Muslim laws, would you then try and fit with the times of 2050?"
Are you that revolutionist Basic? 
While there are arguments for and against from your analogy of the belief system. I still believe that religions is a cultured ideologies written by ideologues, philosophers and think-tanks of a given era. There can be either evolving or stagnant whichever way the society accepts them.
Islam has certainly stood still on this for the last 1400 years but as I read somewhere, (can't provide references), every movement, cult, philosophies and ideologies has a life-span of about 2000years and then goes through an evolution. Your only have to look at other belief systems. I don't think there are any right or worng answers here.
coming back after much deviation, I believe at present its the marriage institution that will die its and many will simply co-habit, but forced marriages will certainly die its natural death given time. I think that forced marriages should STOP immediatley and punitive actions should be taken on the perpetrator. Where the incident occured abroad then the guardian/parent should be held responsible. |
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| 11:15pm, 6th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36964
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I think I may be too old for the revolution think_tank, but hey, it didn't stop Fidel Catro 
As for no right or wrong, the right and wrong comes from the perspective of the individual. The only reason why we don't pull each others hair out is that all religions teach a common good of respect.
As for the evolution element, the religions don't evolve, it is the people that evolve around it. The scriptures don't change, the understanding around the scriptures evolve (or devolve). It is that which can create betterment for society or increase conflict. From that certain belief systems gain or lose popularity.
The marriage institution won't die as such, it'll merely lapse and go full circle and that could mean that by going full circle people take on archaic principles which might mean a re-emergence of old style marriages.
Things don't just die out, they simply lapse and come back again in the future under the guise of postmodernism. |
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| 05:26pm, 7th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
think_tank
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36965
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Msg no: 36964 -
Basic - AGREED - COULDN'T PUT IT BETTER MYSELF.
AS TO YOUR AGE BASIC... YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD TO START ANYTHING IN THIS DAY AND AGE..
COME TO THINK OF IT REVOLUTION MIGHT NOT BE A BAD IDEA - I MIGHT HAVE TO THINK ABOUT ONE.... AND I AM OLDER THAN YOU BASIC.
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| 10:22pm, 7th Feb 2008 |
Call for male forced wedding help |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36966
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How old are you Mr Tank? |
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