| 11:18am, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36748
|
Is there a reason Hindustan has not taken this step. Seems a bit unfair, and even discriminatory to force people to get married under the Hindu Marriage Act.
Is there anything particular that some sikhs find offensive with the Hindu marriage act APART from the fact it has the word Hindu in it? |
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| 11:27am, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
jake_the_muss
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36749
|
Inder- your not the brightest are you??!!
Call me crazy but maybe Sikhs find it offensive that it doesnt say Sikh Marriage Act. |
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| 11:28am, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36750
|
So if they went through the act and put sikh where it says hindu everythings ok then ? |
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| 11:30am, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
militant_atheist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36751
|
isn't india supposed to be a secular state? so why have marriage laws divided under religious status?
being curious, can you seek divorce by saying "talaq talaq talaq" too? |
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| 11:31am, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36752
|
being curious, can you seek divorce by saying "talaq talaq talaq" too?
If i recall correctly, only if you were married under the muslim weddings act. Men are also allowed to marry upto 4 women under that act. |
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| 11:31am, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
militant_atheist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36753
|
inders- i think jake is saying why can't it be "marriage act"??? does it really need to have a religion on it?
i see the discrimination here, so if i was to find a bride in india i would have no choice but to marry under the hindu marriage act? |
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| 11:32am, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
militant_atheist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36754
|
If i recall correctly, only if you were married under the muslim weddings act. Men are also allowed to marry upto 4 women under that act.
oh my god... |
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| 11:41am, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36755
|
In western countries its easy. All supposedly secular contracts of marriage are based upon christian tradition.
one man one woman.
legal rights on what is owed upon divorce.
The process of getting a divorce.
Things have been ammended only very slightly over the past few years. You would have no choice but to marry under the underlying uniformly christian based marriage contract.
In a country like India where the differing moral basis are wide and varied. It would be unfair on certain minorities to get married under the majority cultural norms especialy as these minority religions are as much a part of the history and traditions as the majority cultural norms.
The reason why Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists get married under the Hindu Marriage act is because culturally they have the same fundamental principles of marriage as the majority. Other minorities such as Christians and Muslims have differing principles and have their own marriage act.
If you were to draw up some sort of secular marriage contract, I'd love to see it. I'd love to see if you could do it without tens of millions of people protesting in the streets about it. How can you be allowed to marry 4 women and only 1 woman at the same time ? |
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| 11:42am, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
militant_atheist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36756
|
so there are seperate marriages for hindus & muslims, so why not sikhs, jains, buddists, christians too?
OR WHY NOT MAKE IT EASIER WITH- "MARRIAGE ACT 2008" |
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| 11:43am, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36757
|
^ I think i've answered that.
Awaiting your reply. |
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| 11:47am, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
jake_the_muss
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36758
|
Its great to see Pakistan making great strives to make allow freedom to sikhs recognising Anand Marriage Act
Rather than India's usual ignorance......Fack it, sikhs are hindus anyway...Make them do it our way. |
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| 11:49am, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
militant_atheist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36759
|
"In western countries its easy. All supposedly secular contracts of marriage are based upon christian tradition."
christian marriages, are you sure? how about civil partnership, and gay marriages, are they christian too? i can't remember minorities complaining too much about how marriages are controlled in the uk...
"one man one woman.
legal rights on what is owed upon divorce.
The process of getting a divorce."
marriages in this country are moving more and more towards equality, why can't india follow this?
"The reason why Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists get married under the Hindu Marriage act is because culturally they have the same fundamental principles of marriage as the majority."
says who? the article above points out sikhs do not like being married under the hindu marriage act, and have protested against it, so why can't they have their own? or again even simpler, just the plain simple 'marriage act'? why the 'hindu marriage act'?
"Other minorities such as Christians and Muslims have differing principles and have their own marriage act."
who decides all this? the SECULAR govt?
"If you were to draw up some sort of secular marriage contract, I'd love to see it. I'd love to see if you could do it without tens of millions of people protesting in the streets about it. How can you be allowed to marry 4 women and only 1 woman at the same time ?"
marrying 4 women at once should be illegal- no questions asked. in the west it is, and we have no problems here.
whats the worst some indians will do, burn an effigy of the marriage act? hehe... |
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| 11:52am, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
militant_atheist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36760
|
from article....
"even as India is yet to follow suite despite pressure from various Sikh organizations"
if the minority don't feel comfortable, then the govt have no right to decide on behalf of them on who they share their cultural/religious views with.
so do you agree, the "marriage act 2008" would be more suitable? |
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| 11:53am, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36761
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So you would impose monogamy onto over 200 million Muslims living in their own country, under their own customs, who don't believe it.
I don't see the benefits of that. |
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| 11:54am, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
militant_atheist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36762
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i dont particulary agree with a sikh marriage act but i cannot blame them, in order to avoid being thrown into the hindu marriage act. |
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| 11:59am, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
militant_atheist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36763
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monogamy is civilised, why would you expect any different?
would the opposite of monogamy not conflict with equality to women? now you may tell me "but women dont complain"- how could they with unequal status?
SO YOU DON'T SEE THE BENEFITS ON A MAN MARRYING ONE WOMEN? (at least one at a time before divorce/death etc)
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| 12:14pm, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36765
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I try not to deem what is civilised and what isn't civilised and then impose my will onto other people who think differently.
History as shown me that this is no solution to any given problem.
There is a small step between that and rounding people up and shipping them off to death/labour camps. |
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| 12:20pm, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
militant_atheist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36766
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"I try not to deem what is civilised and what isn't civilised and then impose my will onto other people who think differently."
the law in a country is sovereign, people must obey it. of course the law will try to be reasonable. india has population problems, 1 man having 4 wives thus 3 kids each equals 12 children! and so on...
i don't think the law making way so men can have 4 wives is reasonable in anyway...
"There is a small step between that and rounding people up and shipping them off to death/labour camps."
huh? im suggesting men keep to 1 women and vice versa, its harldy sending anyone to a death camp (actually if they have the wrong partner it can be!!!) |
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| 12:30pm, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36767
|
Militant Atheist
You don't seem to be too clued up on the system of polygyny in Islam and a lot of what you're saying is based on assumption.
Firstly, Muslims are not expected to marry 4 wives.
Secondly, Muslims aren't encouraged to marry more than one wife purely to disguise adulterous relationships.
Thirdly, for the marriage to be deemed acceptable the wife or wives need to approve of the new marriage.
So in practice it is difficult to do as each wife must be treated equally well, the same amount of dedication which is given to one wife must be given to the second or even third or fourth.
The reason why it is allowed in Islam is because it's been used as a method of population increase after war and famine, where wives have become widows and do not have the means of earning, so under the acceptance of the relevant parties someone can marry the woman, provide them love, honour and dignity with financial stability and an inheritance for the existing or unborn child.
The system is rarely used now, because even in times of famine and war, there is economic aid and the responsibility placed on men is too high on a religious point of view, whereby any God fearing Muslim would avoid it.
Some people do marry more than one wife purely for sexual gratification, but under Islamic law, the reasoning is void. |
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| 12:42pm, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
militant_atheist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36769
|
"You don't seem to be too clued up on the system of polygyny in Islam and a lot of what you're saying is based on assumption."
so clue me up...
"Firstly, Muslims are not expected to marry 4 wives."
but are allowed? so can women have 4 husbands? thats only fair? plus i didnt say they are expected to, im saying allowing them to is very wrong.
"Secondly, Muslims aren't encouraged to marry more than one wife purely to disguise adulterous relationships."
again, i didn't say this is the reason, did i? are you trying to tell me something indirectly?
"Thirdly, for the marriage to be deemed acceptable the wife or wives need to approve of the new marriage."
awwwwwww how nice! so nice mrs khan no1 gets to approve of mrs khan no2?! so can a husband do the same for his wife? yes or no? if she wants 4 husbands can she? plus your point is irrelevant in a country where women are not treated as equal as men!
"So in practice it is difficult to do as each wife must be treated equally well, the same amount of dedication which is given to one wife must be given to the second or even third or fourth."
again, how sweet! a tear has come to my eye!
"The reason why it is allowed in Islam is because it's been used as a method of population increase after war and famine, where wives have become widows and do not have the means of earning, so under the acceptance of the relevant parties someone can marry the woman, provide them love, honour and dignity with financial stability and an inheritance for the existing or unborn child."
MAYBE 1400 YEARS AGO, BUT NOW?!
"The system is rarely used now, because even in times of famine and war"
are you sure?????????? do u need some proof?
"Some people do marry more than one wife purely for sexual gratification, but under Islamic law, the reasoning is void."
proof required? |
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| 12:54pm, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36771
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'but are allowed? so can women have 4 husbands? thats only fair? plus i didnt say they are expected to, im saying allowing them to is very wrong.'
Why is it wrong? Women can and do marry more than one man in Tibet. It isn't only fair, nothing is that black or white and you know it. The reasons why some Tibetans agree on Polyandry is mainly for financial issues whereby having 1 wife for 3 brothers would be easier to finance compared to 3 brothers having one wife each.
why should I prove to you my assumptions when you are clearly making assumptions aswell.
I don't endorse polygyny, but it is deemed acceptable in certain societies, unless you live in that society, you can't judge it as right or wrong.
Do you agree with the system of women adopting the surnames of men after marriage, it's usually expected in secular Britain, is that right? |
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| 01:54pm, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36773
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Basic, this line of discussion is pointless.
Its not for Muslims to justify their religious beliefs to Indian Law. If a muslim man wishes to marry a 2nd 3rd or 4th wife under the stipulations within the act that she agrees and is under no coercion. There is not a problem with the law.
Militant Athiest wishes for the law to dictate to people what they are allowed to do and not do. Which is fine, but he is discounting the fact that people are behind the laws. If a law runs contradictorily to peoples customs, beliefs and moral conscience then it is the law that is wrong.
Please read up on the social contract. OR on civil disobedience.
It is not the place of the law to lead social change within a country. This would be an artificial change anyway, change must be from the grass roots up.
As for "uh? im suggesting men keep to 1 women and vice versa, its hardly sending anyone to a death camp".
Oh really. If you make polygamy illegal. What would happen to those muslims who broke this law. What if they broke the law en masse ? For simply doing what they belive is fine, what the women who are marrying in this way believe is fine and what they have been doing for hundreds of years. What if Mr Atheist doesn't want to stop there. Maybe he thinks left handed people are uncivilised. People who smoke. Eating marmite. Watching television soaps. Maybe he doesn't like the color red and thinks that red is uncivilised. Maybe we should all live like Mr Atheist. The world renowned authority on civilisation. |
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| 03:09pm, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
warriors_of_truth
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36774
|
"The reason why Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists get married under the Hindu Marriage act is because culturally they have the same fundamental principles of marriage as the majority. Other minorities such as Christians and Muslims have differing principles and have their own marriage act."
Is that what you think?
So now your talking for Sikhs, Buddhs and Jains, telling them its ok to get married under this act? Why have you got a problem if people of a seperate religion want to get married under a act that recognises there religion and there beliefs which are totally different to hinduism? Your recent comments, have caused me to think that you really havent got a clue about Sikhi and other religions, but continue to open your mouth.
Example - I dont know much about baseball, yet I keep commenting on it and talking about it, what a fool I would sound like! |
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| 03:56pm, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
k4sh
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36775
|
Nice to see.
Pakistan and Pakistanis have always been hospitable to their own, and to visiting Sikhs, whether its through looking after historical temples or facilitating vital sikh pilgrimages.
I find it strange then that Sikhs in India and the west show so much hatred and anger towards Pakistanis and their faith.
Maybe this will do something to quell the myths that we're not all monsters out to take away your wives and daughters.
In fact some would say much of what Baba Nanak preached came directly from Islam and even today there are some in Pakistan who regard him as a sufi saint and show him great respect. |
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| 06:10pm, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36776
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W_O_T
couple of questions.
1> What exactly is different in principle between a Hindu marriage and a Sikh marriage in legal or philosophical terms?
2> How did the Sikh Gurus (all of them) get married ?
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| 06:17pm, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36777
|
Another couple of questions too.
> IF they come out with a Sikh Marriage Act, are you going to say that only Khalsa sikhs are allowed to marry under it ? (continuation from other thread where you said every sikh should be baptised)
> If they come out with a Sikh Marriage Act can you name one person it will help. In any way.
Its amazing such strong feeling when you talk about Sikhs being made to marry under a hindu marriage act you see such anger and passion. Tell the same men about the female infanticide rate in the Punjab you don't hear a whisper. |
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| 08:43pm, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
jake_the_muss
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36784
|
Warrior of Truth- Theres no point in trying to reason with Hindus like Inder. Always trying to come out with Sikhs are hindus shit...
Just be glad that our neighbours Pakistan glady allow sikhs to marry under Anand Marriage Act.
Its suprising that Hindus on here like to see sikhs are cut hair, drinking, smoking, half wits.....As soon as they come across someone with passion with sikhi. Are quick to call them Khalistani Fundo's, or narrow-minded, backward etc etc...
I can imagine most of theses guys dont know much about sikhi, but only know what has been told them by there 'sikh' mates down the boozer!!
Whenever there is a topic on current affair all theses hindus come jumping out of there burrows and talk garbage.
i find it amazing some hindus find it hard to understand sikhs would prefer not to be married under a different religions act.
If the tables were turned i can imagine they would be the same. |
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| 08:54pm, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36785
|
Are you asking whether I'm Hindu or telling me I'm one ? |
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| 10:14pm, 25th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
pritam
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36790
|
jake_the_muss, I think you are being a little harsh. From what I've read of his posts over the years Inders isn't Hindu but has a Sikh background.
And yes Hindus seem to be rather touchy and unsupportive when it comes to this issue and others but I fail to see them 'jumping out of there burrows' in this thread or maybe im missing something?
Inders, sure it might just be a token and meaningless gesture to you should they introduce a 'Sikh Marriage Act' in India, but to many it would mean the world of difference (psychologically) and may even help to mend a lot of the damage done to community relations in India and quell some of the paranoia which goes round about Hindus trying to destroy Sikhi in India. And given we have a Sikh PM its disappointing more hasnt been done on this issue.
Well done to the Pakistani gov't |
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| 09:04am, 26th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
militant_atheist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36796
|
'Why is it wrong?'
huh? so you're justifying several marragies?
'Women can and do marry more than one man in Tibet. It isn't only fair, nothing is that black or white and you know it. The reasons why some Tibetans agree on Polyandry is mainly for financial issues whereby having 1 wife for 3 brothers would be easier to finance compared to 3 brothers having one wife each.'
tibet? what does that have to do with the price of fish? we're talking about the law in india which is modifying to cater for muslims to have 4 wives, which is what i don't agree with, and no im not scared to say that.
'Do you agree with the system of women adopting the surnames of men after marriage, it's usually expected in secular Britain, is that right?'
no i don't really agree with that, but can you really compare, chaning your name from mrs davies to mrs smith for your husbands sake, or your husband marrying 3 other women and bringing them home, having separate families with them? |
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| 09:16am, 26th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
militant_atheist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36797
|
"Its not for Muslims to justify their religious beliefs to Indian Law. If a muslim man wishes to marry a 2nd 3rd or 4th wife under the stipulations within the act that she agrees and is under no coercion."
does she fairly have a choice? if forced marriages occur with asains in the west i can bet my last pound they happen in india- what choice would the poor girl have?
"Militant Athiest wishes for the law to dictate to people what they are allowed to do and not do. Which is fine, but he is discounting the fact that people are behind the laws. If a law runs contradictorily to peoples customs, beliefs and moral conscience then it is the law that is wrong."
errr, what else is the point of the law then? india has many cultures, if i come from the culture of giving and receiving dowry, WHY CAN I NOT DO THIS? it is direct discrimination, its like being sent to the death camp, i am going to burn an effigy of the indian constitution right now outside my house..
"Please read up on the social contract. OR on civil disobedience."
you're justifying men marrying 4 women at once, the irony of this is you tell me to do the reading up...
"It is not the place of the law to lead social change within a country. This would be an artificial change anyway, change must be from the grass roots up."
so where do they change from?
"Oh really. If you make polygamy illegal. What would happen to those muslims who broke this law. What if they broke the law en masse ?"
did i say send them to prison, maybe 1st make an effort to go out and tell people its wrong, u dont need to pass the law next week
"For simply doing what they belive is fine, what the women who are marrying in this way believe is fine and what they have been doing for hundreds of years."
dowry has been going on for 100's of years, why stop it? many other laws in india have too.
"What if Mr Atheist doesn't want to stop there. Maybe he thinks left handed people are uncivilised. People who smoke. Eating marmite. Watching television soaps. Maybe he doesn't like the color red and thinks that red is uncivilised. Maybe we should all live like Mr Atheist."
now thats a bit silly. eating marmite, being left handed, eating television soaps hardly compares to a man marrying 4 women at once, in a poverty ridden country with population issues.
"The world renowned authority on civilisation."
again, the irony!
p.s (i dont justify dowry, just used as an example) |
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| 09:39am, 26th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
dr_AZ
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36800
|
4 characteristics of an ideal woman
1) she has to be the perfect housewife -cook clean n care for kids
2) she has to be filthy rich - AND I MEAN RIIIICH
3) she has to be a whore in the bedroom
4) these three women should never kno each other!!! |
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| 10:55am, 26th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36803
|
That dowry law is doing really well isn't it Militant Atheist. Why do you think that ?
Could it have something to do with 'consent of the governed' ? |
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| 04:37pm, 26th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
warriors_of_truth
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36805
|
1> What exactly is different in principle between a Hindu marriage and a Sikh marriage in legal or philosophical terms?
In legal terms its probably ok, im not sure. But there is no such thing as divorce in Sikhi. Philosophically, I believe the Hindus go around fire 7 times (im not what sure what each means?) But each time two gursikhs go around the Guruji that is the central point of there life and they go around Guruji 4 times. |
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| 04:46pm, 26th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
warriors_of_truth
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36806
|
2> How did the Sikh Gurus (all of them) get married ?
Guru Ram Das Ji wrote the Anand Kaaraj for his own wedding ceremony, so that answers the questions about the marriages of the other 5 Gurujis as Guru Har Krishan did not marry.
So before Guru Ram Das ji there was Guru Amar Das ji, now before Guru Amar Das ji became a Sikh of Guru Nanaks house he was a hindu and he was in his 70s when given Guruship, so he would have got married according to the Hindu tradition as he did not know anything about the House of Nanak at that time of his life.
Before Guru Amar Das Ji was Guru Angad again Guru Angad Dev Ji was a young married man when he met Guru Nanak dev ji and before he became a Sikh of Guru Nanak Dev Ji he worshipped Durga maa, so again he would have got married according to there tradition.
Now Guru Nanak Dev Ji also got married at a young age and he would have got married according to the traditions of his parents, when Guru ji dissappeared in the river and had darshan and full instructions from Sat guru he was already married.
In Sikhi Anand Kaaraj is a union of the soul with the supreme soul. |
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| 04:49pm, 26th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
warriors_of_truth
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36807
|
> IF they come out with a Sikh Marriage Act, are you going to say that only Khalsa sikhs are allowed to marry under it ? (continuation from other thread where you said every sikh should be baptised)
No, not only Khalsa but people who are developing a relationship with Guru ji. I dont understand why someone who doesnt believe in Sikh would go around the Guru Granth Sahib ji???? Can you answer that?
> If they come out with a Sikh Marriage Act can you name one person it will help. In any way.
Its obviously helping a lot of people (the wrong people) not having it! Why does it hurt you if Sikhs have it? Or why dont we scrap the Hindu marriage act and change it to the Sikh marriage act where Hindus will have to fall underneath that act? |
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| 05:32pm, 26th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
Kaalia_81
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36808
|
sorry W O T, surprised at this term of marriage act but it may have been constructed with the 'dharma' aspect of Indian religions and just put it under the umbrella of Hinduism!
dont dwell on it, just a name and its all about DHARMA anyway so chill and be good and truthful in your life which we are all meant to be and follow! |
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| 06:22pm, 26th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
rikshawalla
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36809
|
kaalia no offense but that sounds really partronising.
If Sikhs in India want their own marriage act then I don't see the problem in this. As WOT mentioned there are specific differences, both spiritually and practically between the two ceremonies.
And Dharma to one person may be adharma to an other - its pretty idealistic to suggest otherwise. |
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| 06:27pm, 26th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36810
|
> If they come out with a Sikh Marriage Act can you name one person it will help. In any way.
You could not name anyone then ? |
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| 06:30pm, 26th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
Kaalia_81
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36811
|
maybe it should just be called Indian Marriage Act then! |
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| 06:34pm, 26th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36813
|
Actual there is a Special Marriages Act. Which allows anyone to get married under it (as long as they're not related to each other and they're over a certain age).
But noone actualy cares about the law. They'd rather go around beating the same drums over and over. |
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| 08:29pm, 26th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
warriors_of_truth
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36815
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Inder veerjii - I think i've answered the most important questions you posed, but your hung up on a silly question, which hasnt satisifed you, well first answer my questions - why does it hurt you to have a Sikh marriage act in place? Just because you dont think it will benefit anyone, are you now speaking for the millions of Sikhs in India? I dont understand why a Singh and Kaur can not get married under a set of guidelines that are specifically for there beliefs? You guys talk like cave men, its such a small thing to ask for but we sikhs have to fight the world for it, unbelievable, to say how much we have given for India we cant even get this? Yet the likes of Inder will not mention the facts how Panjabs becoming smaller and smaller, Panjabis are drenched in alcohol, yet there water is being taken away, oh yet the saint Inder mentions female infanticide, yet does not use his senses on what really is happening in Panjab! He would rather throw that argument in to divert the attention, but disregard all the other problems......i smell something rotten
Kaalia - Im afraid Guru Gobind Singh doesnt agree with Hindu dharma!!!! You need to read the Dasam Granth that will explain it all for you. Im happy you have a hippy view on life that we are all one and yes we are all one because we have all come from that one force, but our (Sikhs) philosophy on life (the purpose of it and our daily code of conduct) and achieving oness with the almighty doesnt agree with what hinduism believes in. |
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| 10:10pm, 26th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
Kaalia_81
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36817
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you will see all manner of groupings and sects within Hinduism, all following their own ways to reach the Supreme. Same way, one Hindu is unlike another Hindu in how he leads his life, way or path he takes, the one common denominator is this thing called karma and dharma and that all paths lead to the one summit.
i think this is why alot of hindus see jains and sikhs and buddhists as similar and on their own defined paths, a concept unique to Dharmic religion.
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| 11:16pm, 26th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
rikshawalla
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36821
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kaalia sure there are many different hindu sects each following a slightly different path but they all have one thing in common and that is belief in the Vedas and geeta. Can you be a Hindu without believing in the Vedas?
The Sikh Gurus categorically rejected the Vedas!!! Theres no ifs not buts here so i fail to see why you continue on with your line of argument that some hindus 'may' see sikhs as part of the hindu fold....well if they do then they don't know much about the sikh faith (nor their own)
Hindus who claim Sikhism is a part of Hinduism do more harm than good. All it serves to do is alienate Sikhs and create hatred between the two communities.
guru Nanak obviously saw flaws in Hinduism &and Islam (whether you agree with him or not) or he wouldn't have seen the need to start a new faith. |
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| 12:57am, 27th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
think_tank
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36822
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I haven't read all the comments because the ones I read are so pointless.
Does any one know the provision of the Hindu Marriage Act (1955)?
Lol: the main reason for the Act was the provision of 'divorce' as per the religion there are no such sanction for it as well as overt conversion in interreligious marriages. No one is tied to this Act. Get your facts right.
In India every religious group marries under the provision and sanctions provided.
India has been trying to register all marriages to protect married couples from dowry, divorce settlements and under age marriages but religious groups have been boycotting them.
The reason that Pakistan needed to provide this provision for the Sikh community is because there are no other provisions apart from the Sharia law to protect and recognise marriages other religious groups.
Wedding Laws in India
India is a cosmopolitan country and tolerates personal laws of its citizen. As a result each citizen of India is entitled to have his own personal law inter alia in the matter of marriage and divorce. Hence, there are different rules and regulations for different religions. Hindus are governed by Hindu Marriage Act, 1955 while marriage and divorce amongst Muslim takes place under the Muslim Marriage Act. Christians and Parsees follow Christian Marriage Act and Parsee Marriage and Divorce Act respectively. Besides, people can also marry under the Special Marriage Act, 1954. Persons of any religion who get married under the Special Marriage Act, 1954 are governed by the said act. Those who get married under a civil marriage or no formal marriage ceremony marry under the Special Marriage Act, 1954.
- Christian Marriage Acts
- Hindu Marriage Acts
- Muslim Marriage Acts
- Parsi Marriage Acts
- Special Marriage Acts
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| 01:04am, 27th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36823
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Did I read correctly or did someone just blame Hindus for Sikh men drinking too much ? |
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| 05:48pm, 27th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
Kaalia_81
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36840
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apparently. |
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| 06:35pm, 27th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
jake_the_muss
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36842
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I havent, but i have read how Indian Goverment seem to be doing nothing for punjab, allowing it to dry up and kill itself off. |
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| 06:48pm, 27th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
Kaalia_81
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36843
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that is such major piece of drivel and self delusional crap I have come across!
why do you fall for this? its as clear as water that Punjab is one of the very most important states, locations, peoples India has as part of its fold and well being.
just am clueless as to the reach of the conspiracy theories the fundus preach on the impressionable.
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| 06:50pm, 27th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
Kaalia_81
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36844
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"..doing nothing for punjab, allowing it to dry up and kill itself off."
do you really believe that?? Pay scant attention and let it become ripe for next door to come in at will and arm and influence the fundoos even more than it has up to now??
do me a favour! |
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| 07:09pm, 27th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
rikshawalla
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36845
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If Punjabis keep on voting into power crooks like Badal and murderers from the congress party its no wonder nothing moves forward domestically.
And last time I checked, all the chief Ministers of Punjab since Gurnam Singh in '66 have all been baptised Sikhs so why aren't they doing more to help their own people? Or are they part and parcel of the conspiracy too.
I guess the evil gov't in New Delhi is responsible for this too -
http://www.sikhsangat.org/news/publish/asia/Over_70_000_Punjabis_suffer_from_AIDS123234.shtml |
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| 07:18pm, 27th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
rikshawalla
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36846
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unbelievable, to say how much we have given for India we cant even get this? Yet the likes of Inder will not mention the facts how Panjabs becoming smaller and smaller, Panjabis are drenched in alcohol, yet there water is being taken away,
Punjab becoming smaller and smaller? Fair point but many Sikh politicians of that time supported the creation of haryana and himachal as it then gave them majority status in the 'new' punjab hence more power.
blaming the central government for the alcohol problem? The state government, the Shiromani Akali Dal ( a sikh party) have full control over Punjab police so why aren't authorities and the police instructed to do their job and clamp down on illegal alcohol sales?
As for the water issue, you're right the new water distribution and diversion plans are extremely unfair to punjab farmers and something needs to be done to reach a suitable compromise. |
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| 08:28pm, 27th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
Kaalia_81
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36847
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rikshawalla, i bow to what you say about the vedas. fair point and says alot. |
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| 12:58am, 28th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
think_tank
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36853
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Anyone complain about the free electricity these filthy rich farmers receive? and whenever gov tries to charge for it all come out in protest.
Is this fair?
Stop complaining about Punjab, it received more aid and rehab aftermath of the partition than any other state...
Ask my dad... sorry you'll have to meet him in heaven. |
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| 05:45pm, 28th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
mamatedave
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36857
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bloody hell is it any wonder India still remains stuck on par with sub Saharan Africa when it comes to social and economic development.
All these guys do is blame each other for their own problems.
Hindus blame Muslims and Xtians every time they feel like going out for a riot and killing a few dozen people from the minority communties.
Muslims blame, well Muslims blame any group they can think of to excuse their own socio economic failings and backwardness.
And now Sikhs blame Hindus for the fact that half of Panjab is hooked on drink and drugs.
Fantastic, 'Mera Bharat Mahaan' :) |
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| 11:15pm, 28th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
teri_sas
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36865
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Akali Dal is full of nonces. Tohra was the only decent guy.
and the police wont listen to anyone..they're the most corrupt motherfuckers about. and the biggest consumers of alcohol WHILST on duty.
If u go Punjab, drugs are everywhere..how the fuck u think its getting into Punjab? how the hell is it growing left right and centre of every sharak?
think tank...wasnt punjab the main state affected by the partition?
if anything there wasnt enuff aid or security. every1 was raping the shit out of each other. and rich filthy farmers? have u tried farming? its the toughest occupation!..and as a fact a lot of farmers are not getting enuff suport from the govt and are commiting suicide due to debt! u chat tooo much shit.
theres a massive problem in Punjab which a lot of people seem to close their eyes to...
human rights abuses (jaswant singh khalra's speech will give u more info)
corruption
Abortion
alcohol
drugs
Get the so called pussy leaders out..including the biggest fudoo badal... clean the state up...keep our paani and use the money from this very rich state to make schools hospitals and bring in khalistan ;) (waits for backlash)
Then ill go live there!
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| 11:50pm, 28th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
rikshawalla
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36866
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Get the so called pussy leaders out..including the biggest fudoo badal... clean the state up...keep our paani and use the money from this very rich state to make schools hospitals and bring in khalistan ;) (waits for backlash)
Teri_Sas, in the recent punjab elections Simranjit Singh Mann of the breakaway akali dal party stood for ALL of the above (yes even Khalistan) yet got humiliated at the polls when only a tiny minority voted for him. Why were crooks like Badal preferred over Mann? If this is the case surely the electorate only have themselves to blame for the state of affairs in their state.
As for the alcohol and drugs problem, even in the UK the Sikh community have a higher rate of alcohol consumption and abuse than other ethnic minorities (according to the bmj http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/332/7543/682 ) yet I don;t see the British government blamed for this. This is a social problem which has been getting worse through the years, and until mindsets change no government in the world will solve this problem - hell the uk government can't even stop underage street drinking yet you expect a 3rd rate indian government to sort out a similar problem in punjab. |
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| 11:55pm, 28th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36867
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^^
The post is wrong on so many levels I wouldn't even know where to start.
Just some points to consider.
Who is drinking the alcohol and taking the drugs ?
Who are the police ?
Who is in local government ?
Where do the rivers in the Punjab start ? What makes them Punjabs and Punjabs only ?
Who is having abortions ? Why are they having abortions ?
Too many Sikhs and Punjabis with a superiority complex. Thats the major problem with the Punjab. You missed that one out teri_sas.
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| 02:24am, 29th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
think_tank
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36868
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"think tank...wasnt punjab the main state affected by the partition?"
teri_sas, read the history dude. NO, both Punjab and Bengal were affected equally, only idfference is that the Punjab experienced onslaught of the refugees in one go and Bengal's refugees came over many years. One of the reason Marxist stronghold in Bengal is due to the fact that gov. ignored rehab largely but the CPM came to their rescue and provided some relief. No! I don't support the CPM but for rural poor they benefitted from land reforms thus the support.
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| 11:53am, 29th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
warriors_of_truth
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36871
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Oh look suprise suprise, Inders asking more bewakoof questions, you obvioulsy got some reading complex. Ive never known someone to get answers and have there mouth shut and to keep coming back for more. Unfortunately im not your dad and can not keep answering every single question you have in life, try figuring it out from the other side, instead of using your own mat! |
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| 03:00pm, 29th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36875
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I don't know if I have a reading complex or not. Mainly because I don't know what a reading complex is.
Maybe if you asked more questions, you'd be less ignorant W_O_T. |
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| 03:38pm, 29th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
warriors_of_truth
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36876
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Yes, thats a good one that is! |
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| 05:45pm, 29th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
ALI_G_AIII
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36878
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"Im afraid Guru Gobind Singh doesnt agree with Hindu dharma!!!! You need to read the Dasam Granth that will explain it all for you."
This is pure bakwaas. Can you give me any quotes from the Dasam Granth where Dashmesh Pita says that he "dosnt agree with Hindu dharma"? Have you even read Chandi di Vaar da Paat?
The Sikh Gurus categorically rejected the Vedas...
This is also bakwaas. Its amazing how some people will say (and manufacture) anything to try and justify their worldview. If you have no knowledge of what the Gurus actually said please stay silent on the subject rather than defaming them. I'm not sure that they would approve of your actions.
Some of the comments on this thread just reek of insularity and small mindedness. In addressing the argument, it may be beneficial to take account of the fact that (first and foremost) Sikhi was never intended to be about "labels". If you consider this, then the arguments for having a "Sikh Marriage Act" fall away (i.e. do not pass go, do not collect $200).
Inders makes some sensible points. Just because you don't like the answers (or, more likely, don't have the answers) to his questions doesn't make them less valid. If you can't address some simple fundamental points then you really need to re-think your standpoint. |
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| 06:27pm, 29th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
jake_the_muss
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36879
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Why cant it be the india marriage act, why must skihs fall under a hindu title to get married.
As you as Ali G, 'sikhi was never intended to be about labels'. Then why must sikhs be labelled under the hindu marriage act.
Also im sure being baptised Khalsa from Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, is a label. (Not intending to go off on a tangent). |
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| 08:09pm, 29th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
warriors_of_truth
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36881
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Ali g - You have come out with a typical answer that a lot of people come out with -Have you read Chandi di vaar? who is it in praise of? If you read that paath dont reject any of the others, do you read benti chaupai?
" * Pae gae jab ta tumra tb ta khu anth tara nehee aneeyo. Ram rahim Puran kuran, anak kahy ma'th eek na maneyo. Simrat shastr badh sabh bohu padh kahaa ha'm ek na janeyo. Sri aspanh kirpa tumree karh maa na kheyo sab tohay bkhanyo. (30)
* O God ! Since I have held your feet, none other has entered my vision; Ram, Rahim, Puranas, Quran and many others recite, but I don't believe in even one. The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas describe many mysteries, but I don't recognise even one of them; O Sword-wielder God! All this I write, with your blessings, is not what I know but what you have shown me. "
How can you argue against that? Nice try though! |
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| 09:19pm, 29th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36882
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Doesn't the Shri Guru Granth Sahib say that the vedas was given to Brahma to read and mediate upon by God ? |
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| 09:29pm, 29th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
warriors_of_truth
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36883
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Its doesnt totally disregard other holy texts, the Gurus believed that these texts didnt contain the full truth, but that doesnt mean they do not have goodness in them. |
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| 09:49pm, 29th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
warriors_of_truth
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36884
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By the way I'm not familiar with the line you have mentioned regarding Brahma. Can you please provide a reference? |
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| 03:42pm, 30th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36885
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inders crap questions and im sure u can answer them urself...its not that difficult...
But you're right theres a fuck load of issues in punjab..that includes people that are running it and the bastid government. but a lot of it can be sorted with a bit of work.
its ignorant to think that indian goverment doesnt have a secret agenda...they've had one since before 84, actually back to the partition.
rickshawalla i aint got a clue why no1 voted in mann...maybe people are scared? badal/captain seems to impress people by ripping up the gd roads and putting down new tarmac and suddenly everyone thinks hes doing a gd job.
its always gunna be between badal and congress. until theirs a change of leadership the bigger parties will always win. the others have a small chance..bit like the liberals.
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| 10:11pm, 30th Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36886
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its ignorant to think that indian goverment doesnt have a secret agenda...they've had one since before 84, actually back to the partition.
Go on then faceless... whats this magical secret agenda ? |
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| 10:43am, 31st Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
militant_atheist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36888
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"maybe it should just be called Indian Marriage Act then!"
AGREED.
the indian govt is so incompetent its unreal. massacring their own people, spending millions on nuclear weapons to piss their neighbours off, whilst 50% of the population live in poverty...
parties like the bjp coming into power is a joke, they are radicalised hindus. so much for democracy and secularism. |
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| 11:05am, 31st Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
teri_sas
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36889
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not faceless inders....just that i'm working in between posting..when i get the chance! (its teri_sas, just incase same happens)
whats this magical secret agenda ?
well mate if we look at numbers u'll see quite a few hundred thousand sikhs have been killed in the last 25 years
is that enuff? Lik i say listen to jaswant singh khalras speech..he was murdered for telling the world what he found out!
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| 11:13am, 31st Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
militant_atheist
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36890
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i think amnesty internationals reports speak for themself, india is included in the list of other asian countries for human rights abuses and no im not being racist...
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| 01:15pm, 31st Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
kaalia_81
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36895
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"parties like the bjp coming into power is a joke, they are radicalised hindus. so much for democracy and secularism."
militant, its cos of Congress and socialist/Nehruvian and the other Lefty cohorts which has hindered and caused angst, BJP is the saviour like it or not. |
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| 01:51pm, 31st Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36896
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kaalia
Would you use the same justification for the Taliban in Afghanistan? Would you say that they where saviours of Afghanistan? |
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| 02:39pm, 31st Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
warriors_of_truth
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36897
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Inder - I'm still waiting for you answers!? |
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| 06:47pm, 31st Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36903
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sorry just seen this now.
Answers to what ? I might be blind but i can't see no questions.... |
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| 06:49pm, 31st Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36904
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By the way teri_sas. An agenda is not a statement of action. Its a statement of intent.
If a hundred thousand Sikhs have died in the past 25 years. Why would the Indian government want to kill them ? |
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| 07:04pm, 31st Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
kaalia_81
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36905
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basic, it seems you do not have the grasping or inclination to get into indian politics and what actually goes on there.
BJP is in no way at all comparable to taliban and the like, u have no idea mate, shame.
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| 08:39pm, 31st Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
warriors_of_truth
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36906
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To INDERJEEEEEEETAAAA
I'm not familiar with the line you have mentioned regarding Brahma. Can you please provide a reference?
No, not only Khalsa but people who are developing a relationship with Guru ji. I dont understand why someone who doesnt believe in Sikh would go around the Guru Granth Sahib ji???? Can you answer that? |
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| 09:11pm, 31st Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36908
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http://www.sikhnet.com/sggs/translation/0423.html
423-5.
There are plenty of verses that praise the vedas. There are as many lines that say those who think just by reading the vedas and not contemplating naam is of no use.
I'm not a religious scholar, read has much as you can and form your own opinions.
No, not only Khalsa but people who are developing a relationship with Guru ji. I dont understand why someone who doesnt believe in Sikh would go around the Guru Granth Sahib ji???? Can you answer that?
Because its expected from their familys ? We all bow before the Guru as children before we know why we do it anyway. Is that wrong too ?
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| 09:11pm, 31st Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
inders
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36909
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/inders |
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| 09:44pm, 31st Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
Basic
[Profile - Diary]
Msg no: 36910
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Kaalia
Please explain the differences then?
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| 09:47pm, 31st Jan 2008 |
Pakistan recognises Sikh Marriage Act. |
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